Intensity of high school athletics programs

Parent Cafe
1

Does anyone else here feel that high school sports have in recent years become ridiculously intense and no longer
serve the needs of the athletes? My view of athletics is that they can be a hugely positive and important component of a kid’s high school and college life. The vast majority of athletes will not become professional and not compete at an Olympic level, yet it seems that sports are being coached at an intensity that tends to dominate a student’s life.

A couple of anecdotes from my recent experience:

A significant number of rowers at DS’s program have recently dropped out because it is simply not a positive experience anymore. It is like a permanent military boot camp with all the fun having been removed. There are a couple of superstars on the team who may compete at a national level, but the whole program is run at an intensity that is more suitable to those superstars. The average athlete gets burned out. To quote a few accomplished rowers: “You could not pay me to row at college”.

My DD’s grew to intensely dislike the coaching and atmosphere of their high school swim team. Winning meant everything. It was ridiculously intense and became completely incompatible with their high school IB program. High school coaches placed athletics way above academics. Daughters were D1 level swimmers but now are very happy swimming at top ranked college D3 programs where athletics play a much more appropriate role in their lives.

DD’s high school football team : significant drop outs recently. Athletes say it is not worth it.

I think the proper model for high school athletics are programs that cater to the good/average athlete. Make the experience a positive and fun one for the athlete. They should be able to look back on high school sports as a terrific time where they bonded with teammmates and developed great character traits. Not as grinding work and burn out. The professional/Olympic level athletes can find private programs that cater to their specialized needs. Part of the problem also is driven by atletics being the ‘golden ticket’ to a prestigious college. Which just perpetuates the outsize role athletics plays in a student’s life, but that’s another topic.

Maybe my experience is unique to a southern state, where sports play a disproportionate role but I suspect this is widespread. Thoughts?

2

Were there kids to take the places of those who dropped out? If so, the school is providing the level of competition some want.

We have schools that are very competitive in all sports and it is sort of ‘next man up’ if someone doesn’t want to play at that level. There are other schools that do not compete at that level, but honestly the top academic schools are the ones producing the most athletes heading to D1 and D3 schools. They are the schools where the parents have the means to pay for club teams and private coaching in addition to the high school teams.

3

A lot of coaches and parents confuse intensity and competitiveness. You can still be competitive without the drill sergeant mentality. Successful coaches today try to make it fun. Seems like many of the successful coaches are beginning to understand that high performing athletes need more than just the grind.

4

I long ago noticed that some states have ridiculous sports cultures- especially football in the south. The money spent on HIGH SCHOOL sports stadiums instead of on education is terrible. Students going on to college and NFL sports is a source of pride in the local paper sports sections. It is a shame that sports are the ticket out for so many instead of a safer, healthier life. Warped cultures.

In other states/cities. HS football is nothing in Green Bay, WI or Madison compared to some states. The NFL and college athletes are coming from elsewhere. No trickle down football intensity in Wisconsin that I ever noticed. btw- the UW sports teams may do well in recent times but that isn’t the reason most choose the school to my knowledge. Especially since most students can’t get tickets- supply and demand with nonstudents getting more seats.

5

My daughter ran XC at a public high school for two years. She was a middle of the pack runner, nowhere near elite, but she and her teammates were expected not only to be at all practices, which makes sense, but also to attend the pasta dinners twice a week. If there was an “optional” clinic, it wasn’t optional. And team families were strongly encouraged to host at least one of these dinners. When there was a collection for anything–assistant coach’s birthday, gifts for team captains, etc., your name was written down if you didn’t chip in. And the amount was “suggested.” My daughter once had a senior girl badger her for a week to chip in on the coach’s gift because she kept forgetting the $7,

This didn’t come from the coaches, who were as nice as could be, but from the kids, the parents, and the “boosters,” which at this school was a synonym for “dragon.” Everything this school did was over the top insane.

For kids in honors classes and those in the arts, it was almost impossible to honor all of these demands and still finish homework and attend rehearsals. Many kids quit. My daughter transferred to a private school with a much more rational work/life balance, and kept on running, a sport she enjoys to this day.

6

Son is a freshman and is a starter for the JV soccer team but for the first time since he started playing in Kindergarten is dreading practices. Ultimately, they are spending too much time for a sport and he said he doubts he will play next year as it is no longer fun. He will probably still play club soccer.

7

Depends on the school and sport.

I played basketball in high school but quit after one year (10 years ago). My coach wouldn’t even let me stop running to grab my inhaler when I started having asthma problems. She said “I deal with asthma so you can, too.” (something along those lines).

She was fired the next year but by that time, I had found theater and was just as happy without the stress.

8

The time commitments for high school sports is a lot. Most programs where I live (for all of the sports not just the big ones like football or soccer) are 6 days a week - at least 3 hours after school each day and on Saturday (more if they have a game). They are frequently dismissed early from school (missing their academic classes) to travel an hour to an away game at a distant school. JV players must sit through the entire Varsity game that plays before them. Because of this time commitment, students cannot participate in sports and any other extracurricular at school (band, theater, newspaper, yearbook, etc.) Then many of these athletes spend even more hours training with private personal trainers, off season clinics, club/travel teams, etc.

9

As mentioned above, some of this is due to the culture of the HS. My kids attended different high schools and it was night and day. S’s school was a public magnet and while a lot of kids played sports, academics remained the main priority. Sports teams and athletes got recognition, but no more than the arts, academic successes, etc. Lots of kids were involved in sports as well as non sport activities.

D’s school (local public) had a very sports obsessed culture. Can’t speak for what it is like now, but back then sports (especially certain sports) received a lot more recognition than academics or the arts. Not a few of the parents had little to say to you if your child was not in school sports. The school administration attended sports events but had to be shamed into attending drama and music performances. The irony was that most of the sports programs there weren’t even that good.

10

re post #4. Ouch.

Our experience. So different. Son’s CC team had huge numbers (60 boys, 60 girls for a HS of 2000) that went to state most years. Kids ran distances based on desire and ability. The hard core group chose to run all year long- outdoors instead of on the indoor track- in snow and cold. Optional parties for family and kids after meets with food. NO pressure. Great social time for son finding friends to hang out with and many students were in the top academic tier. Many kids juggled other activities as well. Good coaching- the kids learned how to prepare for running, warm up et al. Other sports may have had different cultures. Public school in a mainly working class city had a place for the math trophies as well as the athletic ones. Noted music groups as well.

11

I’ve been a HS swim coach for 15 years. Some of this I’m not surprised by in the least. I don’t run my team like a drill sergeant, though I know people who do. I have an All-American consideration kid on my team, have coached 5 state champions and have school records broken close to 40 times in my tenure. We honestly have an average program - not an elite one by any means, but we’ve come a long way. I have kids from the All-American Consid. kid, all the way down to the kid who is learning how to swim. If the kids come to practice every day, and show commitment, then life is great. Everyone is included.

We try to make it fun, and I think we’ve been successful. We don’t take ourselves too seriously. We give out little awards after every meet to give everyone a chance to shine - not just the big guns. We have a dance party before meets, and we just let them be kids…and in turn, they train hard. I make sure every kid gets into every meet…after all, that’s why they’re there.

My credo is “School, Family and Swim. In that order”. Now, that doesn’t mean that if a kid has a project that they knew about for 3 weeks, and decided to wait until last minute to do it, that they get out of practice. That means, “Coach. I have to stay after with my Bio teacher for extra help. Is it ok if I’m a few mins. late?”. It also means, “Coach, it’s my grandparents’ 50th anniversary. Can I please leave right after my relay at today’s meet for their party out of state?” (These actually both happened this week). It means me being flexible and understanding that their lives don’t revolve around me, and mine doesn’t revolve around them, but that we are still committed to each other. And, I have several kids in the marching band - we make it work so that they don’t have to sacrifice everything for sport.

So, I guess my answer is that while, yes, I do think it’s gotten way too serious, with the right people at the helm, kids can participate in many different activities in school, have fun, and be part of a positive experience. My hope is that my kids leave my program and will look back fondly on their 4 years with our team.

12

I think it varies quite a bit. I have certainly had different experiences. Son’s wrestling team varies from those just starting the sport who will never make varsity to those who are successful on the national level and headed for successful college careers. The opportunities are there for everyone, but the kids who aren’t ever going to make it to the top aren’t pushed to participate on that level. I have my own 2 boys experiences in mind, but I have talked to many people on both ends of the spectrum and every spot in-between who are very happy with the coaches and the program. Just overall a very positive experience. We have had positive experiences with girls golf and boys cross country as well. And I am cautiously optimistic about our first venture into girls soccer this spring.

On the other hand, my daughter’s soccer club coach is not realistic about those girls having other commitments. He would like them to pick one EC by age 11 and pursue that fully at the expense of all others. My daughter loves soccer, but he has definitely made it not fun. Also the volleyball team at our school has more drama than anything put on by the theatre department. Part of that is teenage girls, but the coaches (one in particular) are actually the source of much of the drama. So glad that D doesn’t play volleyball. Also hoping that 5th grade little sister (who loves volleyball) can somehow be convinced to take up golf instead so when she is in high school I can miss that party.

13

I think the source of the problem is club level sports more than high school based sports.

Your six year old wants to play soccer, so you sign her up for a rec league. She has some natural talent and her skills are more advanced than the kids happily picking dandelions. Friends tell you that lilltle Sally should move to a club level team where she can learn more with a “real coach” (paid).

Sally tries out for a club team and makes the B team. At which point, depending on your point of view, your family gets sucked into the edge of a vortex of sports mania, or the best years of Sally’s life begin.

You meet soccer people who are in the know (although you don’t yet know whether or not they really “know” anything). Here’s what you “learn”:

If Sally ever wants to even make the (state championship winning) high school team, you all need to up your game. She’s going to have to make the “Elite Travel” club team. So you do what everyone else seems to be doing. You sign up for (and pay for) extra coaching and training. You sign up for year round soccer. You sign up for weekend tournaments.

By fifth grade Sally has moved up to the Club Elite Travel Team for her age. She is playing year round, and spending almost every day at either practice, training or games. You are traveling to weekend tournaments. Sally’s (and your) social life revolve around the club team.

By the end of middle school, your family is either beginning to burn out or thoroughly invested in the Soccer Club lifestyle.

So, by the time Sally tries out for her high school soccer team, she has been playing intensely for 8 years. There is an extreme divide between the kids who stuck with rec teams (or who didn’t play at all as kids) and the kids who have been playing competitively for years.

If you live in a high school attendance area where there are many soccer club teams, Sally may discover that her club team experience may not even be enough to get her a place on the high school varsity team. Because club teams are not equal.

The high school team is incredible, but the reasons have more to do with the club teams feeding into it, and local parental culture (and socioeconomic levels, because let’s face it, club travel to out of state tournaments in middle and high school are not cheap) than to the high school itself.

I write this from experience and from witnessing club level players being cut from the high school team because the skills of players from other club teams are better. Rec players don’t make it through the first day of tryouts.

None of this is the fault of the high school. And the very best club players play on their high school team for fun. Their sights are set on higher attainments than a high school state championship. But it can be a rough awakening for other kids and families.

My own kids played a variety of sports, at club and varsity levels. By high school they had sorted themselves into sports that suited them. I have one who is playing a sport (not soccer) at a D111 college. We pulled her out of club soccer in fifth grade when (among other things) the coach declared running through team tunnels to be a “Rec Level Baby” activity that she would not allow.

My kids have friends who were cut from high school teams after years of club play because there were too many club players (from different, better club teams) who were that much better.

14

^^ eastcoastcrazy - yep. spot on. Happened to our neighbors. Tens of thousands of dollars spent on it all!
soccer is turning into a big money maker for clubs i think. At our school the XC team cuts no one. It’s a happy group; not super competitive; the goal is to make it to the state meet.

15

Totally concur with @eastcoascrazy. And where I live, you could also most definitely substitute lacrosse for soccer. As soon as people realized how much money could be made starting a club, they exploded. There’s a club out there for any fool willing to part with thousands of dollars even if the kid isn’t especially talented. They are sucking kids in at younger and younger ages. It is really affecting rec leagues in our area. Girls’ club lacrosse is the bane of the guidance’s counselor existence at my kids’ middle school (she told me this). Horrible cliquey behavior - at one point she wanted to ban girls from being allowed to wear their club jackets at school. The parents even feed this stupid frenzy. Like eastcoascrazy, my kids have played a variety of club, varsity and rec sports so I have seen it all.

16

I don’t think this is necessarily a really recent phenomenon. Like Eastcoastcrazy, our town has many kids that play on club level or other non-school teams for sports from soccer through field hockey and track. Our swim teams are top level, and especially for the girls, have to meet certain times to qualify for the team. Almost all of the high school varsity players, with the exception of track and cross country who really don’t do cuts, play their sport off season. Even in track and cc there are athletes who get to go to every meet and those who only run at home (due to bus size issues). For a competitive, athletic kid, running with the pack may not be fun if he or she really wanted to be on the soccer or baseball team but got cut. Some times the cuts are because the kid is not as good, but I have also seen times when the cuts made absolutely no sense.

For the highest level kids in soccer these days, the academy teams do not allow them to play HS partly because it is generally “bad” soccer with more injuries. The academy teams now play in the fall (which is HS season here).

If a kid finds the sport too intense at times it is the coach, but at other times it is the players. Most players and coaches want to win. The kids that sit the bench can be frustrated, but still celebrate a win. The kids here have “psych” parties but only once a week and they only last an hour or two. The parents contribute to the meal or host a party. I never had to give money for the coach’s birthday or anything else like that (maybe girls tend to do more of that).

But my kid in marching band had similar levels of practice and the time commitment was even greater as the shows could last for hours and some were on Sunday. They also had to go to all the football games. There were also “band parties” and sendoffs. We raised money (more than for the sport my other kid was in).

I find it frustrating that in all things the only thing that matters is the “win” record. Coming in second is usually not reported by the local media or honored by the school board, while the winners are. Similarly, however, an 800 SAT score or a 4.0 GPA is honored while a 790 or a 3.99 is not. Not sure there is any way around that.

If a kid finds the sport too intense or the coach not good, there are usually many other activities that they can participate in.

17

I admit, the most pleased I’ve ever been with an EC decision one of my kids made was when they chose to leave the high school team sport scene after 9th grade and take up an individual club sport outside of school. It was still social, she still competed sometime as part of a team, and ended up with individual state tournament recognition. Her coach was really high level (Olympic team coach while she was with the club). But it was not high pressure. Best choice ever.

18

We are in Texas and have had a mixed experience with sports. My kids went to a large, diverse public school where thankfully most sports were open to a variety of skill levels. Club sports were another story, much like east coast describes.

Football was open to all comers, as were cross country and track. Varsity tennis was populated by USTA players, but JV was open. The coaches were good enough that a beginning player could hope to make varsity over time. Varsity soccer was all club kids. Swimming had ups and downs depending on pool space. When the district build a new aquatics complex, swimming became more open after being a sport where a kid had to make times. We were lucky enough to have a coach like the one who posted above, a coach who put school first.

I didn’t have a daughter, but always heard that volleyball was the worst. Club experience was required, the team was small, the season started early and with club required, never seemed to end.

Overall my kids had good sports experiences, but there were some choices involved. My tennis player, for example, could have been a state contender, but we elected not to travel every weekend. I watched some of the kids he used to beat as a 12 yo become highly ranked players.

19

My pups did not play sports - they did the mathlete thing, but both had good friends on athletic teams. While our local HS teams generally all run the range from suck to at best middle-of-the pack, with one exception a perennial state champ contender in softball, the culture was nowhere near as intense as you describe. Sure, there is a time commitment, but I think they are all generally a positive experience for those involved. For this I give credit to the administration and coaches, as they work together to successfully push back on those few parents who might want to push for more. Athletics should enhance the student experience - they aren’t for everyone, but when done right, students can learn valuable lifelong lessons.

20

My three kids had a good experience with high school cross country. The team was ranked the best one in Maine for the first decade of this century. But the coach was great about tailoring the practices to each kid’s level of ability and interest. One year, my two sons were on the team together. In one race, my older son won and my younger one came in dead last, no joking. Their teammates supported both of them equally. Then when my daughter came along, she had a lot on her plate and the coach was fine with her giving it all she was capable of but not pushing her.

Last week, my husband ran into the coach, who said he still has the photo up of my son and his three teammates after they set the 4x800 relay state record. :slight_smile: