Interested in your views on ethics/morality

Parent Cafe
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<p>reflectivemom~</p>

<p>You have given some very thoughtful and interesting answers. This statement:

is really intriguing to me because I have always considered this essential to forgiveness, and yet, much of the literature I’ve read on the subject tends to consider this irrelevant. The assertion is often made that the “forgiveness” is not for the one who “sinned,” but rather for the one who is doing the forgiving. I must admit to having some difficulty with this way of conceptualizing forgiveness and tend to use other terminology for that, such as “get past” or “get beyond” rather than “forgive.” Given the dsyfunctionality of my birth family, this is a topic that I’ve spent a great deal of time thinking/reading about in the last 6-7 years. My concept of forgiveness is much more akin to yours.</p>

<p>~berurah</p>

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<p>Wow, lots to think about. I will tackle the first few, without too much thought here.
1.) Are there <em>any</em> sins so great that we simply cannot separate the “sinner” from the “sin”? </p>

<p>Yes, not many, but indeed yes. I know of people who have forgiven their child’s killer/molester, but I doubt I could.</p>

<p>2.) What right, if any, do we have to expect moral/ethical behavior from others when each of us has “sinned” in our own ways? In other words, to the folks on the Marilee thread who call for all of us to look in the mirror and then dare to cast a stone, DO WE have the right to cast that stone?</p>

<p>Perhaps when things like the MJ story break, and people get together on a forum like this to discuss, everyone’s eyes are opened to the wrongdoing. Maybe someone who did something “lesser” would now see that they were wrong too.</p>

<p>There are many levels of morality and ethics. Some may say it’s immoral to have pre-marital sex, but choices like that are so very personal. Or unethical to keep the shirt that was charged $10 instead of $20, but what if you realized it 2 days and 30 miles later. If the cashier did not lose out in the error, well, then sometimes it is just impossible to go back to this place that you never go to. I don’t know. All conjecture. Hasn’t happened to me yet. Though the reverse has happened to us: we did get only half our order at the drive through once, we were already back on the highway before we realized it.</p>

<p>3.) Is a little white lie such as, “No, Johnny can’t come to the phone right now; he’s in the shower,” (when Johnny really doesn’t want to talk to his gf right then) the equivalent of a bigger, much more damaging lie?</p>

<p>Tough one. While you certainly can’t compare it to a damaging lie, are you collaborating with your child in deceit? I have said “May I take a message and he will call you back?” without any more details I guess.</p>

<p>4.) Has our society become so desensitized to ethically and morally bankrupt behavior that we simply don’t give a flip anymore?</p>

<p>Oh yes, in many many ways. Just as we have become desensitized to violence on T.V. and video games. Listen to some of the lyrics—just about anything is okay. Kids think nothing of revealing what was on a test to a buddy who is taking it the next day. Very few have the moral fiber to say, No, that wouldn’t be right. Because word would spread that you were a *****</p>

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<p>b - I edited my post and changed my questions to statements - after you read it.</p>

<p>But, I think if someone doesn’t “ask forgiveness” they have not yet acknowledge or admitted to themselves and to me that, by their actions, they have “hurt” me or the community. I think for forgiveness to occur that would be a necessary step.</p>

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<p>

To me too…I’m definitely in agreement on this. I’d like to see a different word be utilized for those situations in which someone chooses to forgive, even if the other person is remorseless. To me, that sort of diminishes my concept of “forgiveness.”</p>

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<p>Forgiveness was a very big thing with my mom. She managed to impart some of this wisdom to me. She never felt the need for the offender to be sorry or ask forgiveness. She forgave anyone who did her wrong on the simple basis that she believed in the goodness of all humans; that no one means to cause harm; She also believed that if she harbored any resentment against the person, she would be the one who would not be at peace. Forgiveness to her was the ultimate tonic.</p>

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<p>Berurah, In her book, Spring calls this acceptance.</p>

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<p>^^roshke~</p>

<p>I like this term. I really like to differentiate between the forgiveness bestowed under the circumstances outlined by reflectivemom and that which one offers in order to move on with life and get beyond past hurts (and for health benefits). </p>

<p>~berurah</p>