A religiously committed member of the CJCLDS who does not get admitted to the BYU flagship in Utah could choose one of the BYU “directionals” in Hawaii or Idaho, which are less selective (and less expensive than University of Utah).
https://dailyutahchronicle.com/2019/05/10/religion-on-campus-more-diverse-than-rest-of-state-with-proportion-of-latter-day-saints-over-15-lower/ describes religious demographics at the University of Utah.
And there is absolutely not a balance in terms of WUE,<<<<<<<<
Right, U of U is giving away the farm, and for no reason, .Population growth has driven the COL in the SLC county area up to be unsustainable to a lot of the Utah population. If the U is exposed as being on the wrong end of the WUE equation (UC Merced vs U of U for example) there should be public disgust, but really there isn’t much public interest.
IMO the religious stuff is really secondary in SLC. As soon as you hit the burbs, it is a thing, but the actual city? It is just a quirk. The dedicated mormons that don’t make it into BYU will be in Utah county colleges.
???
The reason was given several times earlier in this thread. You may disagree with that rationale/philosophy but that doesn’t mean there’s “no reason”.
“Right, U of U is giving away the farm, and for no reason,”
They are not giving away the farm with WUE (or even instate residency for tuition purposes which is a much bigger factor) any more than Alabama is giving away the farm with their attractive merit scholarships. The aim is much the same, to drive up the reputation of the flagship and attract strong students both instate (for whom merit is very generous) and out of state. Like Alabama there is a “red state” aspect that is off putting to some prospective students and means they have to be more generous than say CO or OR.
As their reputation has grown, merit has gradually got more selective. Last year there was a discussion at the U about requiring two years rather than one for residency (the one year baseline is a state law not a university policy and seems to have a “missionary” type underpinning) though that hasn’t changed yet. But Utah still wants to be the fastest growing state in the country. I don’t see remotely the same NIMBY attitude as we have in CA.
Utah giving out of state students residency after one year isn’t unusual–a lot of universities across the nation do it–but it always come with a catch: Parents can’t claim you as a dependent on taxes anymore. For some that could work out in the long run via college cost savings, but the parent loses that valuable deduction.
@collegeb2021 I am going to call your bluff. Name them.
Can you explain the valuable tax deduction too? I just don’t get it, with the newer tax laws, a college aged kid isn’t worth much. Maybe AOTC?
What we seem to have in this country are some states that hit above their weight in terms of public higher education, and some states that come up short. So we end up with the disparity that we have. I wonder if anyone has actually ranked this sort of thing? For example, off the top of my head, states that are hitting above their weight would be:
Michigan
North Carolina
Virginia
Washington
California
Utah
States that are hitting below their weight would be states like
Oregon
Louisiana
Florida
New York
Mass (great privates, sucky publics)
Ohio
etc. I’m sure this list could be much better refined. That’s just off the top of my head.
Actually, it’s extremely unusual. The ‘catch’ in California, for example, is 100% financial independence from mom & dad; zero support means not even on parent’s medical or cell phone plan.
@Camasite: I’m not sure what you mean by “hit above their weight”.
The states that tend to have the better publics tended to be those that were of medium size (so have the resources) or larger about a century ago or earlier and invested in their publics then. In the Northeast, the privates had an influential alumni base who stunted the growth of publics there.
Some would disagree with your characterization as well. For instance, OH has a public Ivy in Miami, Cincy with renown design, classics, theatre, and co-op programs, Akron that is one of the best schools in the country in polymers, Ohio U with an Oxbridge-style honors college, and OSU with nationally-ranked programs such as accounting.
Like I said, just off the top of my head. NY and MA seem to be particularly bad. No doubt as you say, because all the influential types in those states are dedicated to their private schools. I mean, how many top MA and NY high school students are gunning to get into U-Mass and SUNY compared to how many top CA high school students are gunning to get into the UC-system?
The PA system also seems to hit below its weight for such a populous state.
The PA system has several problems, from the point of view of a PA resident student:
Yeah. I have family in PA who are loyal Penn State fans. But I don’t see loads of OOS students clamoring to enroll in any PA universities like they are Michigan, UNC, UVA, and the UC system.
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=penn+state&s=all&id=214777#enrolmt indicates that Penn State main campus has 34% out-of-state enrollment plus 10% international, while https://admissions.psu.edu/apply/statistics/ says that it has 42% out-of-state enrollment including 9% international.
Either way, that is a rather high percentage of Penn State main campus students coming from out-of-state. The other CSHE universities also have high out-of-state percentages. But the PASSHE universities’ out-of-state percentages are lower, as expected for the mostly commuter-oriented universities.
Call my bluff? It’s no bluff, it’s fact. (And why would I “bluff”?) Start with every university in Utah. That’s more than one.
The key is financial independence and it’s typically determined by income tax return information. The other factors, like another poster mentioned, including any substantial support given to the student by a parent, is factored into to financial aid considerations–we’re talking about tuition rate. But even with financial aid, it’s got to be more than 50% support.
And yes, there are some other items that come into play like state driver’s license, registering to vote, etc. that institutions, like U of Utah, as well as others across the nation expect.
When an institution has a residency requirement that the student has to be in the state for 12 months preceding start of enrollment, there’s no chance to get in-state residency for tuition purposes. But many institutions will allow the twelve months to run concurrent with enrollment. Look at residency petitions across colleges and universities, it’s all there and laid out as a pathway at lots.
Utah public universities are well known on these forums as being relatively easy to get in-state residency for tuition purposes.
Other states can make it much harder to get in-state residency for tuition purposes, with higher thresholds for being seen as financial independent to avoid having one’s parents having to move to the state for at least a year prior, and/or requiring that the student’s initial move to the state not be for the purpose of attending college when starting the one year clock.
With all respect to Utah, it’s hardly a magnet for OOS and international students the way California, Florida or New York are.
The lenient residency laws are a way of competing for at least some of those students. It’s hardly the norm.
How about every university in New Mexico? Like 20 of them?
I anticipate the response, “Well, that’s New Mexico…” just like “Well, that’s Utah.” And so on.
You write, “Utah public universities are well known on these forums as being relatively easy to get in-state residency for tuition purposes.” I say it’s not that easy–parents are giving up an important deduction I think they’d like to hold on to. Whether the math works out to a net savings or not is a consideration, but IMO it’s not relatively easy.
There are more states/universities and I invite others to do their own research. Look into what other states and institutions permit residency after one year, with parents no longer claiming their child as a dependent for tax purposes and the student getting a driver’s license. And concurrent with enrollment.
This ability to get residency after one year is more common than perhaps you and others understand. Yes, some states have higher thresholds but many do not. And others have residency considerations that fall somewhere in between.
Only somewhat related, but something unique to Utah that comes to mind and worth noting: If you are an undocumented student and receive a scholarship, they are sharing this data with Homeland Security. Important to know when we are talking about costs. They are quite up front with this, and supposedly a state law, but I haven’t found it in their statutes and don’t see the same declarations by other Utah universities. Nice that they give in-state tuition to undocumented students, but not so nice they plan to report you.
Cheers.
International students are not to be depended on these days. But what is the norm is agents from other countries recommending certain institutions of higher education (and international students relying on that advice.) Wouldn’t take much for Utah to promote itself more–and they probably are already–and gain some more share. U of Utah has a campus in China, as an example, so they know the value of the international market.
California and New York? In terms of domestic students, tears ago–and I can’t say these days–U of Arizona out-of-state enrollments came from, in order, 1. California, 2. New York, and 3. New Jersey. Utah is a nice environment, a bit different from Arizona, but I can imagine they are attracting a good number from those locations among U.S. students.
Residency laws are one thing, but scholarships or waivers are the incentives to non-residents to attend. Waivers, in particular, are not cost to institutions except loss of additional revenue. No actual money but makes attendance attractive and prolific among universities.
“In Alabama’s case, the cut was nearly 40%.
Unlike some, it didn’t restore the cuts. The consequences: it searched for OOS and international students who would pay higher tuitions and today the majority of students at the University of Alabama are not from in-state.”
…and I thought Alabama bribed most of it’s OOS students with free/reduced tuition. What do I know?