<p>my son has a strong interest in Astro Physics as well the desire to continue pursuing his passion: Acting. He is planning to double major in theater (prefers musical theater) and a major in Astro Physics (BA and BS i expect?!) What are the chances of him finding a school that meets his needs/desire?
He has a pretty good SAT score of 2150… likes Northwestern, Carnegie Mellon (both have these programs/majors); a few other too, ie. U. of Michigan, Fordham, and NYU (Tufts was a possibility but not sure about acting there).</p>
<p>Talk to MT counselors at Carnegie Mellon, they told us they don’t suggest their students pick up minors since you are pretty much stretched thin with all your classes and rehearsal time. They told us there are a handful of kids who are doing it.</p>
<p>karen, I suggest you look very closely at these schools to determine if they really have these majors. I am pretty certain that Carnegie Mellon only has a major in physics, not astrophysics (they have a couple of classes in that). It would be virtually impossible to double major in MT and physics, though potentially he could do the BXA program. Which would be a combined physics/fine arts degree. Realizing that he would have to get accepted to both programs, and drama accepts ? 10 students or less a year, I think…plus no astrophysics and the drama in the combined program has no MT involved…doesn’t sound like he’d be getting anything of what he wants!</p>
<p>My advice is to just look really closely if this is what he thinks he wants, because it may not be possible after looking at it with a fine tooth comb, at a particular school. He might consider going to the best school possible with astrophysics available, and many schools he could perform MT in a club, or possibly as a minor. Just because he loves something doesn’t mean he has to get credit for it, but just have the opportunity to do it.</p>
<p>My friend’s daughter did astrophysics at Michigan with a minor in cello, which is not the same thing, of course, but she always said that the major was so small that getting classes and support was incredibly complicated and difficult.</p>
<p>In addition to the time required for theater and the time required for an engineering major, students have to get in both sets of classes and you can’t tell whether you can get the classes during the application process. My daughter started out pursuing dual majors in physics and Japanese. Her first year, she missed 40 percent of her honors physics lectures, which met five days a week, because of a conflict with Japanese. Both classes had one section. The physics prof worked with her. She attended a summer language program to get her second year of Japanese finished and loosen up her schedule. </p>
<p>Her second year, she switched to applied math/Japanese and had no conflicts in the fall, but missed her Japanese lecture in the spring because of a mth course conflict. It was a problem for several students, so they worked together. DD discovered that for the fall of her junior year, once again, there is a scheduling conflict. She has decided to go for a certificate in East Asian studies rather than the major. She chose a rather large university so that she would have more choices.</p>
<p>Anyway, my point is that academically a student may have the talent, desire, and ability to do both, but there may be other issues, and you will not be able to tell how it will work ahead of time. The good news is that kids change their minds.</p>
<p>It’s funny, but my daughter has the exact same interests. Knox College graduated a physics/theater double-major last year. My daughter is going to a different CTCL school.</p>
<p>My recommendation would be not to look for a major in astrophysics at the undergraduate level. Instead get a solid grounding in physics with a few astronomy courses added in, and then go to grad school in astrophysics. I say this because my experience with astronomy grad students at a major university is that their biggest weakness is the lack of a really solid physics background, and your son will also have many more options if he majors in physics instead of limiting himself to schools that have an astrophysics major.</p>
<p>As far as specific schools go, Grinnell has an active theater department, an observatory on campus, and because Grinnell doesn’t have traditional distribution requirements, schedules are freer and a lot of students double-major.</p>
<p>When you have a Renaissance Man, try investigating some LIberal Arts Colleges. The devil’s always in the details and the scheduling. I think he should first determine if the Physics Department of each LAC meets his needs, and then see what’s available as a co-major in Theater. </p>
<p>Grinnell and Williams have been mentioned by posters above. </p>
<p>Of the LAC’s I know best through my own kids:</p>
<p>Oberlin has a major in Physics and Astronomy, and a rich musical offering campus-wide because of the Conservatory there. They produce operas, so staging Oklahoma isn’t exactly their ballgame. The college Theater Department (major or minor) is well-regarded at the college competition level. Usually they focus on drama, not MT. Look up the past several years of the staged campus student productions, sponsored by the Theater Department. See if their season choices in recent past sound satisfying or exciting to him. </p>
<p>Amherst College has a powerful department of Physics. I know of a double-major there in their Department of Physics and Department of Music. He managed all weeknight choir rehearsals, weekend performances and music academic requirements. His interest was music not MT, but I’m just saying he held down both academic departments and the rigorous expectations of the College Concert Choir, all while double-majoring in Physics. He went on to grad school in Physics. </p>
<p>Amherst’s Dept of Theater and Dance offers a major (no minor) although that department’s focus is dramatic, very much not MT. Not ruling it out entirely, though, since through the 5-college consortium of the campus, there are open opportunities to audition for MT shows at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. Auditioning and getting roles in nearby MT productions is not the same as training for MT. It’s just an outlet and an opportunity to perform when able. </p>
<p>Mostly you want to watch out for heavy expectations in the Senior Year of any major, for a capstone project or thesis. Doing two senior projects to satisfy the major can be killer, but one can be managed. Not all majors require these of seniors, but check way ahead before pairing any 2 majors. The Dean of Academics is more helpful on such fine points than even the best-researching parent. Still, a lot is in the college catalogues about the finishing requirements for each major.</p>
<p>Suggesting that, since you’re working from home here and online at this stage, a good way to evaluate the focus of a college’s theater department is to go to their academic department website, click around to find the lists of past seasons of FACULTY- or DEPARTMENT- sponsored student theater productions. (In addition, students will also stage their own shows at any college.) But you want to see where the faculty’s hearts rest. It’s a way to get a signal. These would be the kinds of shows he’d have chance to audition for if he were to attend.</p>
<p>spdf, thank you. That was eye-opening to read. I wanted to pull it out for prime attention to the OP, since it widens their range of considerations right now on viewing the Physics v. Astrophysics undergrad major. Again, thanks.</p>
<p>busdriver11, while there is no explicit astrophysics major at CMU, physics majors can choose a “track” and astrophysics is oneo f the tracks, so I’m pretty sure it would be okay in that respect.</p>
<p>BSA at CMU sounds like it could potentially be great, but as busdriver mentioned, that would require an acceptance to two very selective programs. Nonetheless, worth pursuing, IMO.</p>
<p>Big State Universities should not be overlooked; indeed, the larger size may mean a greater selection of class times for any given course than at a smaller school.</p>
<p>For example, Berkeley offers majors in Physics (about 15* courses), Astronomy (about 14* courses), and Theater (about 10 courses), leaving about 7 courses for additional breadth and electives if one takes 32 courses over 8 semesters. Both are in the same division (College of Letters and Science), and none of these majors requires applying to declare the major. However, it will likely be expensive with little financial aid for an OOS student. But check the in-state Big State Universities to see if the desired combination of majors is doable.</p>
<ul>
<li>AP Calculus credit may reduce it by one or two courses, and Physics and Astronomy have considerable course overlap, so a triple major in Physics, Astronomy, and Theater may be possible with careful scheduling.</li>
</ul>
<p>I agree with others that the best thing you can do is pick a liberal arts college with both a good physics and a good theater program. Don’t focus on musical theater, I don’t know of any liberal arts colleges that are that specialized and if he has the chance to take good acting classes, as well as perhaps voice lessons or dance classes on the side, that will be plenty. Also, I agree that going for a physics degree and then specializing later on in astro-physics is the smarter way to go. It opens up a much wider array of schools and he could always pick up a few astronomy courses here and there outside of major coursework. </p>
<p>Then, once he’s at the college, he can decide which of these directions he really wants to follow, and which he’d prefer to do on the side, but perhaps not as a major or just as a minor. I think a lot of kids become unnecessarily obsessed with the idea of double majoring or majoring and minoring, without realizing that it’s absolutely possible to pursue a secondary interest in college without adding it to your transcript. Not only is it possible, but at an LAC it’s probably desirable, because if you’re not bound tightly to fulfilling the requirements of two majors, you can still do your duty by your major and have time to explore not only your secondary interest but also other interests he may develop in college. He may discover when he gets there that he really hates college-level physics (a disciplined study of astrophysics is a lot different than the general interes that most high school students have), or he may discover that college-level theater programs lack the things that he loved about theater in high school. Or he may decide he suddenly wants to study German. When you have someone with diverse interests, just take them to a place where they can really explore a wide range of things and set them loose to figure out what specifically they want.</p>
<p>Take my advice with some seasoning, because my Ph.D. in astrophysics dates back to the early Iron Age (1989), but I would second (third? fourth?) the recommendation for a B.S. in physics over astrophysics.</p>
<p>My B.S. was in physics. I considered doing an self-designed astrophysics major, but the courses that it looked like I needed would have left me only one class short of a physics degree. I figured that the physics degree would give me more employment options and went that route, taking astronomy courses as electives.</p>
<p>Some of my fellow grad students had done their undergraduate degrees in astrophysics, and every one of them had some gaping holes in their training. While they all got caught up just fine, it seemed so obvious that the courses would have been valuable that we were all kind of scratching our heads. It was for that very reason, we were told, that astrophysics graduate admissions committees prefer to see students with physics backgrounds.</p>
<p>That said, if your son has no desire to go on to graduate school, and instead might want to teach or use his astrophysics background in some other way, then a B.S. in astrophysics would probably be just fine.</p>
<p>karen, I’d like to suggest Williams (again). Both departments are small, but very intense. At Williams a student along the lines of a physicist who wants to get on stage and an actor who actually understands physics is not uncommon. Or it maybe an artist who studies Latin or a musician who is also an environmentalist. Williams likes multifaceted kids and makes dual majoring easy. They also encourage activities outside of the classroom.</p>
<p>Your son should definitely submit a performance tape as a supplement to his application, even if he doesn’t end up majoring in theater.</p>
<p>I just want to thank all of you! You have given us such great insight, and “Paying 3Tuitions”, You’re absolutely right (!) my son is a “Renaissance Man” --Great name, btw.
Since my post, he’s expressed that he does want to take these courses and, however, also declared that “International Relations” will more likely be his Major! =D (lol) (its almost like all those times he changed Halloween costumes on me!) Probably the pressure for our seniors to suddenly “declare” their majors before embarking on their freshman year is too great. He’ll likely take physics courses, with other “extraneous” courses, along with theater, hopefully with a bend toward musical theater.</p>
<pre><code> Interestingly enough, my major was Poli Sci. ( + psych. minor) and although I would have loved to have gone on to Columbia or Western (London, Ontario) for International Relations, I didn’t~ and ended up in law school (didn’t love the practice of law… ) So I hope my Son realizes his dreams one of these days, and I’m just elated that he has all of this passion and drive that he does.
</code></pre>
<p>BTW, we are visiting Cornell tomorrow morning (a general information session/tour); he’s seen Northwestern (liked it verymuch); NYU (but we know that Tisch would eliminate the chance for him to take many other courses outside MT); and Brown (not interested). Also planning a trip out to U. of Michigan in the fall. That’s all he’s got.
thanks again!</p>
<p>You may not be looking for more suggestions but, if IR is of real interest, suggest you also consider Johns Hopkins. Tops on International Relations and Physics is also excellent. No major in Theater but there is a minor in Theatre arts. Very flexible course requirements. In fact, I know a kid who is matriculated in a 4 yr double degree program leading to a BM from Peabody in an instrument and also a degree in engineering from JHU :eek:</p>
<p>Karenmommy~I can speak to NU, in that they were very accommodating with double/triple majors. The MT program is audition based end of Freshman year-as you probably already know. Your son will need to apply to the School of Communication as a theater major, and add the 2nd/3rd major from there-as it is very rare to do it the other way around due to class size limitation.(50 male/50female).
I hope this helps-
APOL-a Mum</p>
<p>Another reason to look at LACs is that even if he decides to drop theater as a double major, a smaller school may have more opportunities for a non-theater major to participate in the shows. At several of the competitive schools (and often in the larger campuses) non-theater majors do not get cast. A school like Northwestern does have several opportunities for non-majors, where some MT schools basically say that it is really not possible for mainstage participation. </p>
<p>DS is looking for LACs that encourage cast non-theater majors so that he doesn’t have to give up his passion for acting while studying chemistry.</p>