<p>Is this why we went to war ??</p>
<p><a href=“Tompaine.com”>Tompaine.com;
<p>Ah, the law of unintended consequences…</p>
<p>(((deleted by digmedia)))</p>
<p>It’s over. Just as I’ve been saying. The result is worse than it would have been for the U.S. 2 1/2 years ago. But that’s democracy for you. People tend to vote for whom they want. The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Hamas in Palestine. Ahmedinejad in Iran. And Sistani now sits on top of what’s left in Iraq.</p>
<p>Strong encouragement to democracy breaking out all over the Middle East. The Saudis and Kuwaitis are going to rush to hold elections next week.</p>
<p>[A</a> slightly more optimistic perspective, from an Iraqi citizen, no less…](<a href=“http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2005/12/on-way-to-new-government.html]A”>IRAQ THE MODEL: On the way to a new government…)</p>
<p>Everyone knew that they were going to vote on religious lines, it was no secret. The issue is whether the two minority groups will be able to come together to moderate the group in power.</p>
<p>Somehow, I have a feeling this person’s analysis will be completely wrong. He’s condeming the entire country to a massive bloodbath as his reasoning for the US to leave. We aren’t leaving until the country is stable.</p>
<p>more people should read things from actual Iraqis, like what buckeyenation posted. They’re harder to find, but they’re out there.</p>
<p>“more people should read things from actual Iraqis, like what buckeyenation posted. They’re harder to find, but they’re out there.”</p>
<p>Is there a reason you believe this to be an “actual Iraqi”? He/She/It seems so far out of touch with what actually happened to Chalabi (spent two-and-half-million dollars, and got less than 0.5% of the vote), and to Allawi (said to have spent almost $4 million, and who knows how much the U.S. gov’t or related thinktanks threw into his campaign, only to be overwhelmingly repudiated by virtually every segment of Iraqi society except the expatriots), that I think it is more likely this “Iraqi citizen” is writing from Los Angeles (if it is an Iraqi citizen at all.)</p>
<p>Here’s where we’re headed:</p>
<p>"Meanwhile, gunmen Friday attacked an Iraqi army checkpoint in the city of Adhaim, in religiously and ethnically mixed Diyala province, killing eight soldiers and wounding seventeen, an Iraqi army officer said on condition he not be identified for fear of reprisal. </p>
<p>“There were too many to count,” said Akid, a 20-year-old soldier from Diwanayah being treated for gunshot wounds to both thighs. </p>
<p>Akid, who would only give his first name for fear of reprisal, said his battalion of about 600 men had already suffered over 250 desertions after a Dec. 3 ambush in Adhaim killed 19 Iraqi soldiers. </p>
<p>“They gave up,” he said."</p>
<p>They’re not going to fight for the Americans.</p>
<p><a href=“http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051223/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_051223105056[/url]”>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051223/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_051223105056</a></p>
<p>Demonstration in Iraq protesting rigged elections- my my, I wish we had protested here</p>
<p>^Here’s why:</p>
<p>“The insurgents clearly still enjoy widespread support in Fallujah, but are mentioned only indirectly and always as the muqawama ‘resistance’ rarely as ‘terrorists’. One youth, giving his name only as Firas, proclaimed their achievements. ‘Because of the resistance the Democratic Party in America has started calling to withdraw US troops from Iraq,’ he said, smiling. ‘Thats what the resistance has achieved.’”</p>
<p>[London</a> Times](<a href=“The Times & The Sunday Times: breaking news & today's latest headlines”>The Times & The Sunday Times: breaking news & today's latest headlines)</p>
<p>Oh, and by the way, Omar from Iraq the Model is an Iraqi citizen living in Iraq. [link–about</a> halfway down the page](<a href=“http://intviews.blogspot.com/2005/05/in-t-view-iraq-models-omar-bloggings.html]link--about”>http://intviews.blogspot.com/2005/05/in-t-view-iraq-models-omar-bloggings.html)</p>
<p>With regards to reading things from actual Iraqis, can’t trust the papers there with the truth, considering our government was submitting the articles to show how well everything is going</p>
<p>And what is considered “stable”- can anyone say? Even Bush doesn’t know</p>
<p>Current administration has done the same thing. Including planting a ringer in the press pool. </p>
<p>I thought that governmental propaganda is barred by law. Oh, Well.</p>
<p>The news out of Iraq is like an Impressionist painting: neither disregard nor pay too much attention to any one splotch of color…look at the aggregate picture. Which sucks. The dominant forces in the country are aligned with vehemently anti-Israeli Islamic theocrats sympathetic to Iran. Any sort of secular pan-national politicians have been thoroughly hosed. The Shiite domination of Iraq puts them at odds with the rest of the mostly Sunni dominated Arab world. There <em>is</em> no Iraqi center to speak of. Religious/tribal/clan loyalties continue to be of paramount importance and nepotism and cronyism is regarded as a virtue. Saying “Saddam Hussein was a muderous thug” is like saying “Clinton had sex and lied about it”: true but irrelevant. The worst of it is, Iraq hasn’t hit bottom yet.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yep. I think we should probably cut n’ run pretty quickly before the real shootin’ starts. Having gotten creamed in the election, the Sunnis will probably start in with a real “insurgency”.</p>
<p>By all accounts, the Kurds and the Shi’as cut a deal – Kirkuk for Bagdhad, leaving the Sunnis on the outside looking in.</p>
<p>At Iraq the Model they have posted pictures that they have taken, and things such as this. Also, one of the brothers who used to post there got upset with something awhile ago (2 years?), and went and made his own site, where he lists his location as Baghdad (though he hasn’t posted since last December). They also have first hand accounts. Iraq the Model links to many other Iraqi blogs on the right side of the screen.</p>
<p>Here’s a nice blog by a teenager in Iraq. It has less regarding politics, and more of her individual feelings regarding the things that are happening, and how they affect her. <a href=“http://astarfrommosul.blogspot.com/[/url]”>http://astarfrommosul.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>As far as mini’s post, hopefully as US troops start to leave the country, the Iraqi troops will start fighting for themselves, and for their country. If the country breaks out into full civil war, I expect the US to get out of there quickly (as in we did all we could but the locals didn’t want one country), but until then, or until its stabilized, we have to stay. The election results aren’t official yet, and protests mean people care. Hopefully they will care by protesting, and not killing the other groups.</p>
<p>The Iraq the Model blog is great. I feel horrible for the two brothers and the others with a vision for a secularist democratic Iraq. They are in for a rude surprise when the US cuts and runs.</p>
<p>Unfortunately for those elements, Iraq blew it by failing to take advantage of a very short window of opportunity to stabilize the country while the US still had the political will to help. The Sunnis will be the big losers, which I guess is kind of fitting given that they shot themselves in their feet by rejecting the political process early on.</p>
<p>Bush’s lack of leadership skills has been a big problem. To this day, he’s never presented a credible rationale or objective to the US voters. Once you take weapons of mass destruction off the table, the voters quite reasonably ask, “What the heck are we doing there?”</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What two minority groups? The Kurds cut a deal with the Shi’ia. The Kurds get the north (to ethnic cleanse as they please). The Shi’ia get the south.</p>
<p>The Sunnis get bupkis, which is about what they deserve. Their only real shot would have been to fully engage the reconstruction of Iraq so that the secular interim government had something to run for re-election on. Instead, every time a power station got rebuilt, the Sunni insurgents bombed it. With basic services still at post-war levels, the secular interim goverment was viewed as a failure, thus ensuring a Shi’ia victory.</p>
<p>ID, the secularists and pan-nationalists in Iraq have been throughly screwed. Of course, I could have told you this would happen before we invaded Iraq. And I’m sure the State Department’s “Furtures of Iraq” project predicted the same thing.</p>
<p>I can’t tell you exactly where Iraq will wind up but I will tell you where it won’t wind up: any of the rosy projections from either the Bush administration or Chalabi & the Iraqi National Congress. </p>
<p>When Iraq settles down into what passes for stability, the American people are going to look at the total picture and be outraged that this is what we squandered blood, treasure, and influence for.</p>
<p>“As far as mini’s post, hopefully as US troops start to leave the country, the Iraqi troops will start fighting for themselves, and for their country. If the country breaks out into full civil war, I expect the US to get out of there quickly (as in we did all we could but the locals didn’t want one country), but until then, or until its stabilized, we have to stay.”</p>
<p>The way you’ve set up the dichotomy, the U.S. has to stay in either case. Once the troops start to fight for themselves is the same thing as saying once full civil war breaks out. If we leave TODAY, it will be stabilized much sooner, under the control of Ayatollah Sistani, which is exactly where the U.S. was 2 1/2 years ago, except having created even more ill will as a result of staying.</p>
<p>No one wants to get killed for the Americans. In Diyadh last week - a mixed city, at the first sign of attack, 250 of the 600 Iraqi soldiers deserted. But they didn’t just desert; they took the fruits of their training with them. And they’ll be back…</p>