<p>cnp55…depends on your local p and z guidelines. Where I am, the “common driveway” CAN be owned in common by all the property owners who have access via it. HOWEVER there MUST be a written plan for the common ownership and costs submitted with the P and Z application which becomes part of the land records and is part of the deeds to all the properties. This is to avoid the issue that the OP is discussing. My guess (from cnp’s post) is that this varies from town to town.</p>
<p>I think the OP and the neighbors need to check their own deeds, etc. AND they can also look at and review past practice. I still say…whomever signed the contract with the paver should be required to pay.</p>
<p>You may be right, but if one needs to live with the neighbors…on the other hand, if one does not really care how the neighbors feel and doesn’t care about being friendly with them, VH might or might not be obligated to pay.</p>
<p>You may be right, but if one needs to live with the neighbors…on the other hand, if one does not really care how the neighbors feel and doesn’t care about being friendly with them, VH might or might not be obligated to pay.</p>
<p>If it were me, I’d pay, and be thankful to have a newly and (apparently) better paved road, at a very small portion of the entire cost. Now that it’s clear that the road was due to be repaved anyway, it would be even less of an issue to me. Obviously everyone was aware during the year + of construction that it would be done upon completion. THEN was the time that all of the involved parties should have been discussing this. If not then, well, surely when the work on the road started, someone should have inquired? It appears that the new neighbors did speak to some of the others, and there really is no excuse for not speaking to everyone but then I think it was incumbent on all who live on the street to have asked what was to be done about the road. It was paved a month ago, surely enough time. Future plans to move really don’t matter. I do agree with others that if this is an easement situation, it would be wise to determine exactly what the ramifications are, particularly if you are planning on selling. A written agreement on future maintenance would also be wise.</p>
<p>I wonder if, when the McMs spoke with the neighbors, they asked about how the bill for repaving the road was divided in previous time? Was the percentage charged to VH the same as before or different?</p>
<p>I would be weighing what the money is going to buy me.</p>
<p>In favor of paying:
Avoiding an argument.
Would have had to resurface anyway.
Cost breakdown seems extremely in your favor. (How did they arrive at this breakdown anyway? Could this already be in writing somewhere? Did they use a previous formula? Is the bulk being paid by Mr. McM because he tore up so much of the road that did NOT need to be repaired?)</p>
<p>Opposed to paying:
Set a precedent for neighbors spending your money without consulting you. (Further investigation needed - Did McM think you had been informed? Did someone, somewhere indicate that they would talk to you on his behalf? I would approach McM and simply express confusion about why he thought it was appropriate to send you a bill and not involve you in the decision.)</p>
<p>Ultimately, I think I would plan on paying, but not until after I was able to satisfy myself that this was an honest mistake or failure to communicate. And then I would move to Atlanta. ;)</p>
<p>(And perhaps you could use the sale of your house as an excuse to get the whole procedure down in writing. Tell them it’s necessary for your full-disclosure.)</p>
<p>In that case was 60% a fair assessment to Mr. McM based on the amount of road that needed repair versus the amount of road that did not? Your description doesn’t make it sound as if 40% of the road needed repaving at this time, so I’m guessing that’s what your sticking point is, inadequate communications aside. But I’d anticipate that your neighbors and the paving company are likely saying that the road “needed” repaving in full.</p>
<p>Rereading VH’s account of the matter, it seems as if the evil Mr. C was the real perp here. It sounds as if Mr. McMansion innocently approached Mr. C for advice on how to handle the repaving according to neighborhood custom–not knowing that Mr. C was the local jerk–and Mr. C deliberately left VH out of it.</p>
<p>Given the increases in asphalt prices recently, my inclination would be to nicely ask to see a copy of the bid, which presumably will quote materials plus labor, while making it clear that you intend to contribute. You could even hand over a check at the same time as asking to see the bid. If the likelihood is that the difference in your share from one bid to another will be a couple hundred bucks, it isn’t worth making a fuss about.</p>
<p>I would definitely get a written agreement among all the neighbors stating how road maintenance–including plowing–will be handled in the future, though. I don’t think that it is necessary to involve lawyers.</p>
<p>When my obnoxious septic field sharers moved, the people who moved in (from down the street, actually) wanted to run a pre-school on the property, up to 24 kids. We were concerned because of the shared system, which we knew was elderly. We did some research, and discovered that the obnoxious septic field sharers had, true to form, mis-led them about the size of the tank, which was smaller than they thought. I talked to the zoning people, who complied by requiring that we come to some agreement about the septic system before granting the permit to run the school. What we agreed to do was get estimates for putting in a new system on our property and refurbishing the old system on their property. We then split the total cost in two, which resulted in their contributing a couple thousand $ to our new system. We informed the town that we had an agreement to do this, and I went to the meeting to support their petition for a pre-school permit. The town was happy to have a more clear-cut septic situation between the two houses, our neighbors were happy to have a permit and a separate system (they chose not to refurbish theirs, but they told us upfront that they might not spend the money at that time, which was fine with us), and we were happy to have a separate system although we had not planned to spend the $$ at that time. We and the neighbors both regarded this as better for the value of our houses in the long run. We are very cordial to this day. (No lawyers were involved, btw.)</p>
<p>As said earlier, once the legal stance on all of this is clear, a neighborhood meeting needs to be set so that any future such things will be cleared by everyone before a bill is presented. Then hands should be shook and the new paved cul de sac should have a party. </p>
<p>I would pay since the road was due for paving anyways, and for neighbor relations reasons. Would make sure that any future new neighbors are cued into how costs are shared. If short on money right now, a payment plan might be in order, as this was an unplanned expense for you.</p>
<p>Although this bill was unexpected, it looks like you’re getting off pretty cheaply considering that your road has been completely repaved and will be good for a while, and you’re only paying 6% of the cost. </p>
<p>(I live in New England, and given our freeze thaw cycles I don’t believe there is any such thing as a road that will last 20 years here, I don’t care what the paver told McM. But it does sound like it was paved more thoroughly than in the past - perhaps the correct layer of gravel, etc, underneath instead of just slapping another layer of asphalt on the top?) </p>
<p>The fact that you plan to move is irrelevant; your house will probably be easier to sell with a well-paved road out front.</p>
<p>I’d pay the bill, and call a homeowner’s meeting to discuss and put in writing how in the future ALL decisions regarding the road will be made JOINTLY. I really think you should have something in writing regarding road maintenance before selling your house anyway.</p>
<p>(BTW my parents live on a dirt/gravel road that is actually an easement over someone else’s property and I was horrified when they bought this lot and told me there is nothing in writing about the easement! But other 2 houses on this road have been there for 20 years, and my parents house is now 10 years old, so if the lot with the easement is sold I think there’s something about “continuous use” that means they can’t be “cut off” from access to the main road.)</p>
<p>I too would pay the bill - paving costs have gone WAY up in the last decade - it is not just the cost of materials but the cost of labor has also gone up thanks to increases in insurance costs. My general contractor buddy (whom I just called on a different matter) says his insurance costs are now much higher than 10 years ago. Each guy on his crew now costs him $12 an hour in insurance (medical and liability). Ten years ago, he thinks that was about $5.</p>
<p>I would also have a meeting shortly to discuss writing down how this is to be handled in the future. I would not get into specifics on when or if you plan to move - plans change. Instead I would say that there is always the possibility that one or more of you can move prior to the road being repaved next time - and that the new owners should have the rules spelled out. Mr. M would probably agree being the new kid on the block.</p>
<p>About 1 1/2 years ago I paid about that much to pave an area that was about 350 feet long, essentially one lane, with a cul-de-sac type “bulb” shape at the wider end. Depending on your configuration, that cost may be in line.</p>
<p>You have to consider whether the contractor also paved a long driveway and loaded some of the costs into the road bill, although the fact that your higher income neighbor is picking up 60% plus of the bill may already reflect that. </p>
<p>I’d go for sidestepping disagreements with any neighbors. There are too many nut cases out there…not the kind that shoot you, thank god, but the kind who are simply jackasses to live around. We had a new house built near us recently by an extremely successful fellow, and our across the street neighbor tried to enlist me in some effort to complain about run-off from the construction site. I evaded him, but it alerted me to give the complainer a wide berth. A lot of this complaining happens solely because the old “you-know-whats” who lived there first can’t stand the fact that someone else might have earned more than they did. </p>
<p>Also, while “formalizing” everything might seem like a great way to do it, when you have as many as you do, you might find it less friction-generating to simply continue the way it is. </p>
<p>So I think I’d just pay it. You were going to have to pay something at some point anyway, and while you may not care that its going to last 10-15 years, anyone who buys your house will note that fact when the survey comes back and their lawyer explains they are responsible for paving costs.</p>
<p>Jude37, I just went to Wikepedia and looked up Adverse Possession. Thanks, that is the general concept I was thinking of. At this point the landowner (or whoever buys the land) cannot refuse to allow the road/driveway over his land since it’s been in continuous use for 20 years.</p>
<p>Lafalum, “adverse possession” is not quite that clear-cut. The key to the situation is the term “adverse.” If the use of the easement was with the owner’s permission, the owner could claim that the use was in fact not adverse, and thus adverse possession does not apply. Courts have so held, and not infrequently.</p>
Just wondering…did your H discuss the installation of the basketball hoop with Mr. C?</p>
<p>All these complicated arrangements make me a bit more appreciative of the services & infrastructure my town offers. (Of course my tax bill is outrageous, though.)</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s adverse possession: I think you have an easement. An easement allows use of a the land for a specific purpose. For example, our property includes a sewer easement. In this case, you have a shared driveway easement.</p>
<p>I’m not alone in my assessment of Mr. C. He likes to make mountains out of molehills. </p>
<p>Well, now that I’ve had a few nights to sleep on the issue, I think we’ll be paying the entire amount. (Although I’m still eager to hear what Mr. B is going to do.) As some of you have pointed out, we did get the entire road repaved – the right way; not just patched – for “only” $1,160. I don’t have any quarrel with the percentage that we’ll be paying. I think when I drop off the check, it will be with a lovely note that "although we didn’t budget for this expense, it seems a reasonable cost . . . " or some such.</p>
<p>Suggestions for language welcome. I want to nicely make the point that this was a big surprise to us.</p>
<p>BTW: I love College Confidential. The fact that I can present my silly, boring, little neighborhood dispute and get some of the best minds in the country working on it – Wow! Just wow!!</p>
<p>I think I’d probably talk to them about it rather than try to convey complicated feelings in a note that may come across as a little passive/aggressive. Do they even know that you had not been contacted by other neighbors? That doesn’t excuse them for not contacting them but who knows what they were told.</p>
<p>Yes. It’s very possible that they did not know that Mr. C was not well liked by other neighbors and relied on his information. They should have notified you and everyone else, however.</p>