International Baccalaureate Diploma

<p>I’m in the gathering information stage, have been to the [URL=<a href=“http://www.ibo.org/ibo/index.cfm/en/ibo/about/offices/offices_northamerica]IBO[/url”>http://www.ibo.org/ibo/index.cfm/en/ibo/about/offices/offices_northamerica]IBO[/url</a>] website and delved around. I also have some friends who’ve been living in England and have a daughter who is in an IBO program there. They’re most likely moving back to the NY metro area and have discovered a program offered by Dobbs Ferry High School.</p>

<p>Have any of you had children in this program (or an IB Diploma program in the USA) and, if so, what did you think of it? I find the Theory of Knowledge aspect a bit vague, however I’m hoping to be contacted by the Administrator of the program to find out more information. If any of you have had children go through this program how would you compare it to either AP courses or a small honors class in a private school?</p>

<p>Thanks for your input!:)</p>

<p>My son’s best friend earned his IB diploma last year, and one of my twin daughters is in the program now. Here are my thoughts, random as they may be.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>As a general rule, the IB program is well-regarded and well-received by colleges.</p></li>
<li><p>There is great variability from high school to high school as to exactly how rigourous the program is.</p></li>
<li><p>As an example of no. 2 above, my son (who went the AP route because the IB program just did not work with football and music) and his friend who went the IB route, got 1500 and 1510 on the SAT I, respectively. And each were accepted to virtually identical colleges (they now room together in college).</p></li>
<li><p>My twin who is now in the IB program complains that she is not getting enough writing instruction, while her sister in the regular program has had great English teachers.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Thanks for your quick response concerneddad. I’m especially interested to read your #2 point, as I thought the program was supposed to be extremely well monitored and that all teachers had to be trained, etc., etc. Granted, that said and read ;), it does seem as though it might be difficult to be certain of the quality of the different school’s programs. </p>

<p>I’m also surprised about the “less” writing aspect that you mentioned as compared to the AP route…isn’t there a 4,000 word paper that the IB students work towards? This is one of the things that I found kind of unusual - this ultimate paper that apparently they work on over and over to eventually hand in. I’m sure I’m getting it wrong, but that’s how it appeared to me while reading the website’s inner pages.</p>

<p>It’s really neither. It’s a program that was set up for children after WWII who were in their high school years “overseas” and yet wanted to be prepared to return home to their “local” universities anywhere in the world. A child in Buenos Aires wanted to be prepared to return to Sweden to attend university there. That is how it was conceived. It is not a series of separate tests in different courses like AP. It is a diploma including the “home” language, a foreign language, mathematics, science, the arts and “social studies.” All of these “strands” are like spokes on a wheel surrounding and dependent on TOK, Theory of Knowledge. So the Swedish student would take Swedish as their A1 language, Spanish as their foreign language, Internet Technology in a Global Society as their social studies strand, Math Methods as their math strand, Music as their arts strand and Physics as their science strand. There are many options within these strands. Three of the strands are taken at a higher level and three are taken at a lower level. Higher level has more hours and projects, things to do than standard level. All the students in a given program may have different courses and combinations of courses but they all will take Theory of Knowledge. My son’s favorite course was TOK. Students learn to step outside their own point of view and think critically. Thinking critically is so important in this program in all of the courses. What do you think and why do you think this way? Lots of writing! Essays…Lots of reading…then there are other requirements for the IB Diploma. One is the Extended essay which is like a “senior project.” 4000 word research essay on topic of choice within certain guidelines and with a mentor teacher. There are other essays due as well that are sent abroad for grading. There are oral examinations in your "mother language"in the form of literary interpretation and in your “foreign language” that are sent abroad to be graded as well. So there is an oral component. There is a component of CAS, creativity, action and service that must be fulfilled. YOu may play on the volleyball team, take dramatic roles and volunteer in a community service activity. 150 hours so you don’t sit behind your desk all day. Then at the end a 3 week period of examinations in your subjects that are sent abroad in May to be graded and your results come back in July. To pass you have to accrue a certain amount of points. The grading is different, a point system and it really can’t be compared to the A,B,C grades on regular reports. A 75% in math is comparable to an A…so forth. Grades are not inflated. What do I think of it…it is stressful for normal kids. It is stressful for the best students. They are glad to have it finished at the end. Some think it is not worth it if colleges don’t really understand the program. Some feel that it really prepared them for college. It depends. My son has learned alot from being an IB candidate. He has developed study skills and a love of learning over the two years that it takes to complete the program. Maybe that is normal maturing; I don’t know.I think if you are in a school that offers it, it is wonderful opportunity for students in the high school years. In all I have said above, I am talking about the full IB diploma program, not just taking a few of the classes.</p>

<p>Blumini, There’s another thread on the Parents Board on this topic. I’m repeating most of what I posted there and adding some comments specific to your concerns.</p>

<p>Background: We live in Jakarta. My son is now a sophomore at Williams. His highschool offers both AP courses and the full IB diploma. </p>

<p>Most (but not all) of the American kids take the AP route. The Europeans and Asians go for the IB Diploma. Some take a mix of AP and IB Classes without the diploma. American kids who choose any of these three choices seem to do equally well and get admitted to top US colleges.</p>

<p>The teachers usually specialize in one or the other and are quite protective and defensive of their own system. This somewhat dilutes the school’s ability to offer a comprehensive selection of course in either track, which leads to more criticism especially for the IB because when fewer courses are offered, the IB becomes very restrictive. There are very good teachers in both tracks (and unfortunately a few less so). Some classes are billed as AP slash IB, but this is difficult as the curriculum for each is very specific. </p>

<p>After much deliberation (and cheerleading from both factions) my son chose to get the IB diploma. It was the right decision for him because the program was comprehensive and very organized. It is extremely writing intensive and focuses on analytical skills which have served him well in college. Two features of the IB which I think are its greatest strengths are the Theory of Knowledge class (which is really philosophy) and the Extended Essay, which is the 4000 word research paper. </p>

<p>The negatives were the art studio program was somewhat restrictive in creativity and the choice of classes in social studies was limited. These may have been weakness at his school not universal issues. </p>

<p>American colleges are just getting used to the IB Diploma. Some really, really respect it. Some just consider it a strange European version of the AP. There’s a lot of confusion on how to grant credit or acceleration for IB scores. The colleges’ systems are set up for the AP and the IB doesn’t quite fit in the mold. For my son, I believe the IB diploma was a plus in his admission to a selective LAC; however remember that IB test scores don’t come out until the American admission process is well over.</p>

<p>The IB exams are given in May and the results come out in July. For kids going on to European and Asia colleges these tests are critical to admission. In fact they are the single most important factor. For US schools, only the exams given at the end of the Junior year, can be considered in admission. Since these would be the standard one year classes they are generally not the most important scores. The Higher courses are two year courses and the exams are taken at the end of senior year, when the American kids already have their acceptances.</p>

<p>Some schools give mock-exams both to help the kids get used to the test and to use as a final exam in the course. He received an ABC grade for every class which determined his grade point. The IB exam scores, which are numerical, didn’t figure into his class grade.</p>

<p>The exams themselves depend on the disciplines. The math and science exams are by necessity quantitative. The English and History exams are analysis and writing driven. The arts project evaluation tries to be perfectly equitable, but in any creative endeavor this is difficult to achieve. There are very, very specific guidelines to grading and evaluation for all exams and scores can also be appealed. For the non-Americans this is a very serious undertaking which could influence the course of their lives. (For example we know one very bright girl who was provisionally admitted to a top UK university, but after she did poorly on the exams her admission was denied and she was without any choice at all.) This is not the American system however. If you do poorly on the exams, just don’t send the scores.</p>

<p>In short, I’m pro-IB, but I recognize that quality cannot be perfectly administered.</p>

<p>Thank you both - overseas and momrath for taking the time to respond in such detail. I can see that there’s much for me to take in and really understand in regard to the program and how it might relate to my daughter who is here in the USA. </p>

<p>momrath your point about the exams coming out after the fact, so to speak, for the US college application route does sound difficult, though apparently many students here are taking this path more and more these days.</p>

<p>I’m sorry I missed that thread on the Parents forum - I thought I’d searched for it but obviously missed it. If you can give me the link for it that would be great. In the mean time, thank you both so much for responding. :)</p>

<p>Blumini,
Here are two other threads on IB programs:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=32177[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=32177&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=31165[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=31165&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Thanks so much! :)</p>

<p>I think if I have anymore questions that I’ll add them to [url=<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=387188#post387188]befuddled’s[/url"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=387188#post387188]befuddled’s[/url&lt;/a&gt;] thread IP vs AP. ;)</p>