My son is a freshman in high school (in northern Virginia) and he is weighing the cost/benefits of the IB program vs a more traditional slate of AP and intensified classes.
I believe the IB program centers on classes taken in 11th and 12th grade, although participation requires certain prior course selections. I have heard strong praise and sincere reservations about the program. Praise includes:
the training develops great writing skills
the rigor of the program really prepares students for college
The main concern I have heard is that the workload is insane - huge volumes of reading and massive writing assignments. Furthermore, unlike the non-IB students, the workload is intense all the way up to graduation.
Can anyone comment on their experience with high school IB programs. Was all the work worth it? Was it a real leg up getting into college?
My child, now in her sophomore year at college graduated from an IB Diploma program in NOVA.
Everything you mentioned is true. If your child is involved in many extracurricular activities especially sports it maybe a balancing act. IB classes span over two years and then you take an exam end of senior year.
In AP you take the AP exam as soon as your course is over. (one year)
I’ve heard of students taking the AP exam without having had the corresponding AP class.
You can’t do that in IB. Colleges value both the AP and IB curriculum the same. AP students tend to get more credit for their coursework. In 9th and 10th grade students take pre-IB classes.
In daughters class she had about 90 students out of 450 that graduated with the IB Diploma.
Many who start out decide not to continue with the full diploma program and work towards the IB Certificate where you can pick which IB classes you would like to take.
One thing to keep in mind is that it is easier to find tutors for AP classes vs IB classes. If they are any IB tutors they are usually teachers of the program and charge a very high rate for tutoring.
Isn’t it true that you don’t find out if you got the diploma until well after you have graduated from high school? So in other words the most you can say on your college applications is that you are a diploma candidate, but you can’t say that you have obtained the diploma?
@b1ggreenca, it’s true but it’s irrelevant because it’s true of all U.S. IB diploma candidates.
Your IB score only matters if you’re applying to foreign universities. And if you are applying to foreign universities from a U.S. IB program, may the force be with you. U.S. IB scores don’t tend to be extraordinarily high, and top foreign universities (Oxford and Cambridge, for example), expect very high scores.
Being an IB diploma candidate shows your commitment to a rigorous curriculum. Dropping out of the program for some good reason (for example, the desire to take more science courses than the structure of the program allows) shouldn’t count against you. What counts against you is if you lose your diploma candidate status by screwing up. There are a multitude of interim deadlines on the road to the diploma. If you miss one, you’re no longer a diploma candidate. And that would look bad.
@raclut mentioned that people who decide not to do the full IB diploma program may be candidates for individual IB certificates. This is not always the case. Some IB schools allow it, but in others, the program is all or nothing. You either do full IB or the regular curriculum.
My kids have done IB program at an magnet school – one was certificate kid and the other full Diploma. At our school, IB is the most rigorous program so IB diploma kids get the coveted “most rigorous curriculum available” check on the counselor’s recommendation for college – that all would depend on the specific school. The kids are taking a lot of the exams in May of their senior year, after they have been accepted and decided where to go – so getting high enough scores to earn the diploma counts only for getting credit at college, not a big motivator for kids who have one foot out the high school door. They get their scores in July, and find out then whether they had enough points to earn the diploma. Some colleges will give advanced standing to students who have earned the Diploma, though those tend to be some not top 20 publics and other schools outside the most competitive schools for admission.
IB’s focus on critical thinking, reading and writing are the core skills for college readiness, so is an excellent program for actually being capable of transitioning to college level work. My diploma kid has visited class at top LACs and come away relieved that he felt completely comfortable with the discussion and work because of his IB prep. When you have had a one-on-one 30 minute oral exam on English poetry, there isn’t much more they can throw at you to make you nervous.
You can’t wing it or cram with IB. There are milestones in testing during the two years for the “HL” courses (2 year classes), including research papers, oral exams, literature papers etc. You can’t hop on and off the bandwagon.
It is time consuming. My kid is a Varsity athlete, D3 recruit, with some other time consuming ECs, and he is exhausted. But he enjoys the peer group and the teachers – the best teachers at his school want the IB kids because the kids are dynamic and interesting. So for him, it is worth it, he wouldn’t dream of stepping off the Diploma track.
As the strengths and challenges of the IB program vary so much from school to school, I would suggest really digging down to understand kids’ experiences at your school. At this point, there is no downside in staying on track by doing the “pre-IB” requirements.
We were living overseas during my older DD’s Junior and Senior Year. She did the IB program…It got her into activiteis(CAS) that she probably wouldn’t have otherwise done… Also I think it really prepares them for college…much easier to work on something like an Extended Essay for the first time with support you get in HS. She also got so many credits she was able to graduate an year and a half early and use that money for a master’s program.
Ok, my daughter (HS Jr.) is only six weeks in with the IB program but here are my observations so far:
Wayyyyy less busy work as far as nightly homework assignments. Example: With AP World last year her teacher (is this universal or unique to our school??) required each student turn in "reading notes" twice weekly ... a summary of about 30 pages of assigned reading each class day. The kids could then use the notes for quizzes. They had frequent quizzes and lots of other assignments. It should be noted there were also lots of opportunities for "test corrections" and "bonus points." (again..is this unique to our school or not?? I don't know.). With her IB classes there are way less nightly assignments, but the curriculum seems to be much more in depth. She has said "I am just as busy with IB in the hours I spend working each night, but I am busy learning the material at a level far beyond what I ever had time to do with AP. " Also...there are no bonus opportunities or test corrections allowed.
Testing goes way beyond "recognition" of answers on multiple choice tests. She made a failing grade on her first HL Bio test. Why? It was short answer; essay comparison (compare phospholipid bilayers when X conditions exist etc. etc.) She was used to being fed the answers via multiple choice format and her first quiz grade totally reflected that she was used to studying to recognize, not studying to learn.
Dialogue, critical thinking/essays and oral presentations are the main modes of application and learning. She seems way more actively engaged in classroom discussion and debate and her essay writing skills have improved in leaps and bounds just in these past few weeks.
I have a much happier child so far. She has always loved to learn, but with AP was just bogged down by the process and keeping up with the grind. She studies now to really learn the process and be able to apply her knowledge. She just seems happier and is embracing learning again. Hard to explain maybe. Who knows…she may be singing a different tune by December when the heavier load really hits hard. As for the moment, I would say her friends in all AP are not working any harder or longer, they are just working differently.
I have one child who went through the IB program in one high school, and a second child who went through the AP program in a different high school. On balance, I feel that the first child got a better education and was better prepared for college than the second child. It could have been the difference in the schools and the teachers, but I’m betting the different programs had a lot to do with it as well!
@b1ggreenca, I think a lot of it is that you have to take rigorous courses in your worst subjects in IB. A student in a regular program who is taking APs can avoid APs in his weakest areas, and that may not necessarily be a good thing.
@Marian, I’m sure you’re right. But in this case I’m thinking more along the lines of the number of research papers my older child had to write in the IB program, versus the fact that my younger one got out of high school without having written a single one to my knowledge! I pity him when he’s faced with his first one in college this year!
Yes, it’s something like that but it may not be as hard as it sounds. The student knows the topic ahead of time and can memorize some relevant vocabulary.
Yes, part of the internal assessment for the foreign language is a one-on-one presentation on a topic – the student knows the range of topics in advance, and can prepare the vocabulary. It is stressful for sure.
In our experience (one child with an IB diploma, other child decided to take ala carte IB courses):
IB workload is intense, but not grueling
DS still managed to play travel hockey, have a GF, have friends, etc.
IB teaches the time management skills of knowing what reading you really have to do, what reading you can skim, and what reading you can forget to do
I do not recommend IB for math or science kids unless they will take advanced courses outside the IB program. IB Math is especially limited. DS was pressured by school administration to get the IB diploma, but it meant that he had to take IB Math HL which was a course that he was already two years beyond. It lead to friction with the IB Math teacher.
IB will make a kid write. A lot. DS benefited from this, quite a bit.
I don’t know if DS’s school would have checked off “most rigorous” if he hadn’t been IB. My guess is that they would have, because he loaded up on AP courses and took 8 AP tests by junior year (even though he had far fewer AP classes, technically). It’s hard to know what would have happened, but with his IB diploma he was accepted to Yale SCEA, and he is the least hooked kid in the world.
I received my full diploma (yes, it’s true it does come way after you’ve graduated). It’s a test of not only your academic skills but also, as I’ve mentioned elsewhere time management is critical. There is a lot of milestones and deadlines. It’s not for the faint of heart, that’s for sure.
ToK was one of my favorite classes my senior year, I’m sure everyone has their own experience.
I did HL Math. I’m a math nerd and it’s sincerely one of the toughest exams I’ve ever taken.
And yes, you will write and write and write. The EE alone will consume a massive amount of time.
As a side note, my IB coursework came up in every single one of my interviews and I think it was a definite asset in showing that I chose the most rigorous courses available.
An admissions rep told me that, at a school that offers both IB and AP, they view the full IB diploma as the most rigorous course load. However, it is true that students focusing on STEM areas may be better off taking AP classes because of the AP program’s flexibility.
The workload varies between students depending on their course selection, and the difficulty of each class varies between schools and teachers.
The extended essay and internal assessments are very time consuming, but I have learned a lot from doing them. ToK is a fantastic class, but I have to take it after school for three hours once a week because I do not have enough room in my schedule.
Best advice: Talk to upperclassmen at your school to help you select a strategic IB schedule. Make sure you complete as many SL II exams in your junior year as possible (language, math, science, music, business, etc.) to lesson your work load in senior year (All of my IAs and exams are falling in my senior year, and it is a ton of work!). Find out how difficult each class is at your school and select a good balance that suits your interests.
Last note, in my experience, IB does not match well with SAT IIs. If doing Math II, take the exam halfway through IB Math HL I or at the end of IB Math SL I. If doing a science SAT II, make sure it’s a subject you have completed in your junior year (the full content is likely not covered in the first year of the IB class). I recommend taking the ACT with the IB program to avoid this problem (and save money and take only one test!).
Right now D16 is taking IB physics sl, IB comp sci sl (was supposed to be hl but the school canned it last minute, unfortunately), and IB Bio HL. She’s not doing the diploma because she’s a stem kid, but likes the IB classes. I just had to pay $415 to sign her up for the two IB tests she’ll be taking next year (bio has one more year).
I have to admit, I was a little aghast at that number, just for two tests. Her friends who are taking more are freaking out because they also have to pay for AP, SAT, ACT, and SAT subject tests (we are, as well).
Our school system thankfully pays for both IB and AP tests. DD18 is pursuing the diploma but hasn’t taken any exams yet. DS14 graduated from a different high school and took 8 APs so that would have been a pretty penny to shell out.