International (sort of?) applying for CS

I’m a junior and super stressed out abt this. pls give me some advice. i didn’t even want to apply for cs but my parents pressured me into it… i only had this year to completely switch up my ECs and stuff and im honestly so scared for how it’s gonna go down

Demographics: Gender, race/ethnicity, state, type of school, and hooks (URM, first generation, legacy, athlete, etc.)

female

family income: 400k+, full pay not applying for any kind of aid

indian

new jersey resident (i’ve lived here for 14 years, waiting for EB2 greencard… should get it around next spring but that’s still too late for when i’m applying. i’ve heard that for some schools i’ll be considered domestic and then only international for financial purposes, but idk. is it worth contacting all the schools im applying to and asking what category id be in?)

somewhat large public, not super competitive

hooks: none.. woman in STEM ig??

Intended Major(s): comp sci… 2nd option probably data sci but i also have an interest in bio so maybe bioinformatics? I’m trying to fit into a niche where i focus on education and accessibility to CS, hopefully my ECs send that message

ACT/SAT/SAT II:

SAT: 1490 superscore 750 RW 740 M, def retaking

ACT: 34 composite, 36 R 35 E 33 S 30 M, gonna retake as well

UW/W GPA and Rank: 3.78/4.0 uw, 4.78/5.3 w (it’s impossible to even get over 5.0 at my school, so idk why they scale it like that)

school doesn’t rank, but def in the top 10% of my class, around 500 kids in my grade

Coursework: AP/IB/Dual Enrollment classes, AP/IB scores, etc

going to have 15 APs by the time i graduate, and 15 honors classes (our school does CP, A, and H, with H being the hardest and weighted the same as AP)

sophomore year: APCSP (5) AP Lang (4)

junior year: APUSH, AP Lit, AP Bio, but APES and AP HUG self study

senior year: AP Econ (both macro and micro, it’s one course at my school, AP Physics C (both em and m, again one course), AP Stats, AP CSA, AP Calc BC

Awards: a little lackluster honestly

  1. STEM Racing US + Canada Nationals Qualifier, won Chair of Judges Recognition of Achievement, and NJ State Champions
  2. USABO Semifinalist (top 5% of Open Exam testers)
  3. Won a couple local hackathons here and there, also waiting on results from some essay comps, if I win any then that will go here instead
  4. PVSA Bronze (150+ Volunteer Hours), I was written about in the newspaper
  5. NHS, French NHS

Extracurriculars: Include leadership & summer activities

  1. Co-Founder of a 501c3 Nonprofit to bridge gaps in technology and computer literacy
  • went to middle and elementary schools and did stem related workshops like teaching online safety and simple coding projects on scratch, etc.
  • conducted computer literacy classes at senior homes, specifically bc my grandma in India always struggled with communicating with me bc she could never navigate her computer or phone
  • started a girls who code chapter under the nonprofit and worked with a local coding school to provide an area to host meetings and classes
  1. Stanford Code in Place Section Leader
  • One of the only high school section leaders in a pool of 1400 section leaders chosen from 2000+ applications
  • Teaching groups of 12-15 students the basics of python and programming using Stanford’s Karel Bot
  1. Code Coach at Local Coding School
  • Teach kids from ages 7-12 the basics of coding, starting with scratch programming
  • Supervised game nights and birthday parties
  • Programmed a note writing and feedback system so that parents could keep up with their child’s progress
  1. NJCCIC Summer Cybersecurity Intern
  • Learned the basics of cybersecurity and how the NJ cell works
  • Completed an individual capstone project where I analyzed local cybersecurity threats and vulnerabilities in my community and how people can protect themselves
  • Presented my work at an event hosted by the NJCCIC at their headquarters
  1. Project Manager of STEM Racing team
  • Engineering competition team, managed the more technical parts of the project but also assisted with the visual parts like portfolio designs, social media, etc.
  • Created a website and managed social media pages for our team with over 15k impressions in total
  • Established us as a 501c7 team independent from our school, and fundraised over $5k to help us get to nationals
  1. Web Development Intern at Family Businesses
  • Created and managed websites for both my aunt’s and my parents’ businesses with 100k+ revenue each
  • Programmed a scheduling system for my parents, as they are into short term rentals and needed to easily manage their client’s dates as well as communicate it to the cleaning company
  1. SAT, CS, and Bio tutor at Schoolhouse.world
  • Tutor small groups of high schoolers looking to improve in these subjects
  • Created lesson plans for them and created a website with access to tons of SAT prep material that I gave to any cohorts I taught
  1. New Jersey Youth Chorus Coriste Member and New Jersey Youth Symphony Bass Clarinet Player
  • Accepted to two state level ensembles and held key roles in both, section leader in chorus and primary swing player on Bass Clarinet
  • Performed at many prestigious concert halls like Carnegie Hall and NJPAC
  1. Captain of School Academic Team
  • Leader of a trivia-like competition club at my school
  • Hosted practice sessions and took members to many different quiz bowls than in previous years
  • Increased club size by 15 new members
  1. Volunteer at Local Community Garden and RWJ Children’s Hospital
  • Got over 75+ hours from both places
  • Was the lead volunteer at the garden and taught many new volunteers what they needed to know
  • Set up events and project nights for the patients at the hospital

Essays/LORs/Other: Optionally, guess how strong these are and include any other relevant information or circumstances.

So for my primary common app essay, I haven’t actually written any drafts but I have a couple of ideas. I think I’m most likely gonna write about how I’ve been the only woman in the room when pursuing some of my interests too many times, and how this led me start my nonprofit and open opportunities up for girls. I want to write about the idea that we shouldn’t have to always hear abt the “first woman” to do something in STEM, but instead hear about groups of women achieving great things, and how I want to help cultivate a world where that is the case.

For my LORs, they’re going to be decent but not out of this world I think. I’m going to ask my APUSH and my current Physics teachers, who both love me. My counselor I’m not super close with, but definitely have a better relationship with her than most kids do at my school with their counselors.

My schools in mind:

Likelies: Rutgers, Drexel, NJIT, Steven’s Institute of Tech, TCNJ, Temple, UCM, UCR, UCSC, Penn State

Target: CWRU, UCI, UCSB, UCD, FSU, UF, UMiami, Tulane, UMass Amherst, Purdue

Reaches: BARNARD (i’m EDing here. my absolute dream school), UIUC, Umich, USC, NYU, Georgia Tech, UMD, UCLA, UC Berkeley, BU or BC, Cornell, Columbia, Rice or Emory, Vanderbilt, Maybe Harvard and Stanford?

any advice on the school list and/or my application would be HUGELY appreciated. i didn’t expect this to be so long LOL

Congrats on your achievements. I can’t chance you, but agree the first 7 likelies listed are highly likely…you probably don’t have to apply to all of them. Which are your favorites?

Calculate your UC GPAs here: GPA Calculator for the University of California – RogerHub
I will defer to @gumbymom for categorization of UC schools for CS.

You will generally be considered an international student but your academics/ECs will be evaluated in the context of your HS. Before calling the schools on your list, I would check their websites for this info.

I wouldn’t advise you to retake both. Pick one…which test did you feel most comfortable taking? I could make the case to not spend time retaking at all.

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You don’t need related ECs. They do help with validating your interest.

Why are you stressed ? You’d get into 90% of schools in America.

And you certainly don’t need AP CS.

Your list is way too long. Why so many likelies - and yes they are. You can only go to one. I can say the same for reaches.

In other words, if you’d 100% pick TCNJ over UC Merced, why is it on your list ?

Your targets are reaches. Don’t forget UCs are test blind. And your reaches are reaches.

Let’s start with what kind of school do you like ? If it’s all women’s, where is Bryn Mawr or Smith or Wellesley ?

If it’s Penn State, why is Tulane or Barnard on there ? Or TCNJ ?

Start with - what do I want in a school beyond a big name …size, weather, environment t (urban, rural, etc), diversity.

You will be somewhere day after day for four years. You need to be happy. You can study CS anywhere. Heck my nephew majored in Poli Sci at a generic state school and programs for a big company in the city. He passed their tests.

You have too much pressure - and that’s not good.

Figure out what you want and let’s find you a reasonable amount of schools to match.

You have too many - and too many likely rejections.

Good luck.

Ps - will the NJ schools see you as a resident ? International full pay is a gift colleges will love !!

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As long as you are on a visa you are considered international. When you get a green card you will be considered domestic. Once that happens you can update your status but, unfortunately, given the various processes and how they do it, until you are actually invited for the interview there is no real estimating as to when you will get your green card - the timelines can sometimes alter dramatically while you’re waiting (immigrant myself here).

This is a different issue than being considered resident for in-state tuition purposes, which can differ on a case by case basis depending on state rules (eg some differentiate by type of visa you’re on).

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I agree that your list is too long. Cut at least half of the schools.

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If you really don’t want CS, maybe discuss alternatives with your parents (you mentioned bioinformatics). You will do best studying a field you enjoy.

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Congratulations on your competitive profile. As stated the UC’s are test blind and have capped OOS and International enrollment to 18%. Since you state that costs are not an issue, then the $80K+/year price tag for the UC’s will not be a deterrent in applying.

Below are the 2024 Freshman admit rates for CS and admitted UC GPA ranges. The UC’s do a comprehensive/holistic application review and will take into account 13 areas of criteria so chancing is very difficult.

UC application review criteria

Campus CS
UC Berkeley 1.9%/ UC Capped weighted GPA 4.20-4.30 Campus UC unweighted 3.89-4.00 Campus Weighted uncapped 4.31-4.65
UC Davis 19% Selective Major/ UC Capped weighted GPA 4.19-4.30 Campus UC unweighted 3.80-4.00
UC Irvine 16.8% Impacted Major/ UC Capped weighted GPA 4.12-4.29 Campus UC unweighted 3.83-4.00
UCLA 4.1% Impacted Major/ Capped weighted GPA 4.25-4.32 Campus UC unweighted 3.90-4.00 CS Weighted Uncapped 4.66-4.92
UC Merced 90%/ UC Capped weighted GPA 3.59-4.15
UC Riverside 31% Impacted major/ UC Capped weighted GPA 4.03-4.28
UC San Diego 12% Selective Major /UC Capped weighted GPA 4.19-4.31
UC Santa Barbara 10% Impacted Major/ UC Capped weighted GPA 4.23-4.31
UC Santa Cruz CS BA 57% and CS BS 68% Impacted Major/UC Capped weighted GPA 3.96-4.26

I will also list the overall campus admit rates based on residency:

Campus CA RESIDENT OUT OF STATE INTERNATIONAL
Berkeley 14.9% (72129 apps/10766 admits) 7.3% (29755 apps/2184 admits) 3.3% (22320 apps/751 admits)
Davis 36.7% (67912 apps/24933 admits) 58% (12267 apps/7081 admits) 51% (18655 apps/9604 admits)
Irvine 21.8% (87157 apps/19100 admits) 50% (15732 apps/7853 admits) 43% (19412 apps/8360 admits)
Los Angeles 9.5% (92290 apps/8795 admits) 9.3% (31841 apps/2929 admits) 6.3% (22119 apps/1384 admits)
Merced 100% (23691 apps/24582 admits includes referrals for ELC) 85% (1539 apps/1312 admits) 81% (4121 apps/3339 admits)
Riverside 75% (48633 apps/36585 admits) 95% (2753 apps/2623 admits) 85% (6034 apps/5120 admits)
San Diego 26% (88392 apps/22979 admits) 33.6% (24169 apps/8112 admits) 22.4% (21878 apps/4893 admits)
Santa Barbara 32.3% (75523 apps/24357 admits) 38.4% (17466 apps/6718 admits) 30.4% (17247 apps/5237 admits)
Santa Cruz 60.8% (57503 apps/35008 admits) 81.7% (7691 apps/6288 admits) 81.3% (6503 apps/5286 admits)

Also note that the UC’s require a yearlong Visual/Performing Arts course for eligibility.

Good luck.

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Yes, but only for tuition purposes (OP will need to file for an exemption from non-resident tuition). See this page.

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Congrats on your strong record; I’m sure you will have a lot of great options, especially given the lack of financial constraints.

That said, your process seems like you’re just shotgunning prestigious schools, and applying for a major you aren’t even excited about, because it’s what your parents want. So that makes everything feel a little chaotic and unfocused.

The strongest focus I see here is how sure you feel about Barnard. That is someplace to start - why do you love it so much? (At least it’s someplace that doesn’t accept by major!) I’m not questioning it as an ED choice - it would keep your major/career options open and give you a wealth of opportunities, and it’s definitely a school where ED is advisable if it’s your top choice, so that seems like a plan. I’m just wondering how the rest of your list aligns with your love for Barnard. As Tsbna asked, why no other women’s colleges on your list?

Have you looked into the Douglass Residential College at Rutgers? This could be a great enhancement to your experience, and Rutgers would be a great deal since you could petition for in-state tuition.

Can you say more about your academic and career interests? I think the premise of blending a computational skill-set with other interests is a good one. When you say “I’m trying to fit into a niche where i focus on education and accessibility to CS”… does this mean that you would really prefer an education-related career, or are you just talking about trying to “package” yourself as an applicant? (Honestly, I think you’re overthinking the need for this level of packaging and specialization, and stressing entirely too much about “switching up your EC’s,” etc.)

Maybe a school with “CS+X” options would be a good way to satisfy your parents but also explore other areas of interest. You already have UIUC on your list; have you looked at their CS+X degrees? CS + X Degree Programs | Siebel School of Computing and Data Science | Illinois Maybe their CS+Education degree would hit the sweet spot for you?

Northeastern is another school that offers tons of flexibility via their CS+X combined degrees. They also depend on full-pay international students to make budget, so your strong credentials plus ability to full-pay would make you a very attractive candidate from their point of view… and if you like the urban environment at Barnard, you might find Northeastern appealing too.

If your education interests lean toward instructional technology, Vanderbilt could be a great choice. Their programs in this area are mainly at the grad level, but there may still be research opportunities for undergrads. Likewise UPenn, which doesn’t seem to be on your list.

If your thinking about accessibility leans in the direction of the human factors field, then maybe look at Tufts: Human Factors Programs. Olin could be worth a look too, if a tiny, project-based school (in consortium with Wellesley and Babson) would appeal… and there’s also the HCDE major at UW-Seattle (which is not as insanely hard for OOS students to get into as the CS major)… also Informatics.

If you’re looking at California schools, consider the Claremont Colleges - especially Harvey Mudd (where the CS major is actually majority-female by a slim margin), Scripps, and Pomona.

If at all possible, try to dial back the worry about the admissions race - you can only attend one school, and you will have good options! - and focus more on what you would truly like to do, in college and beyond, so that you can find the environment that will best enable you to grow in the directions that are most meaningful to you. Good luck!

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This is so so helpful. thank you so much. I’m leaning towards barnard ed and nyu ed2 (in case) bc i love the city and the urban environment. not to mention the access to columbias cs program through barnard. that being said, it’s not the fact that it’s a hwc that im drawn to it, its more so the environment so thats why there’s no other hwc on my list. i’ll def look into the claremont schools and the other ones you mentioned. this is really helping me clean up my list and i’ll update soon with a more finalized, clean list!

I’m planning to talk to my parents about the major choice. i’m not completely opposed to CS, as some of it does truly interest me (primarily ML, and that’s a growing field rn anyway) i was mostly just scared that I didn’t stand a chance against all the other people apply for CS nowadays, especially being an international. As for the niche I was talking about, I don’t really have a clear idea of how my interests would factor into my future career, I just focused on education and accessibility because teaching is something i’m passionate about, and good at. I don’t think I would like to be a teacher as my career, but i definitely do not want to let that part of me go unnoticed if that makes sense.

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If you are interested in the city, then look at schools like GW, UMN, Pitt, USC and not schools in the middle of nowhere like UC Merced or Penn State or Purdue. Secondarily or safety - a Denver or Charleston or VCU although I doubt you need to go get that expansive in your list.

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I don’t see any of these being a draw when Rutgers (probably Honors) will almost certainly be an option at in-state cost. Definitely agree with Pitt instead of PSU; and if OP applies to Pitt when the app opens in August, she’ll have that acceptance well before EA/ED apps are due, and won’t need any other safeties that she likes less than Pitt. (Also confused why Temple and Drexel are both on the list, but not Pitt.)

As for UC’s, I understand the thinking that if you’re going to the trouble of completing the app, might as well check all the boxes and apply to all of them. But that’s basically just a monetary donation to the UC system, because it’s highly unlikely that this student will end up traveling across the country to attend any UC other than Berkeley, UCLA, or maybe San Diego. I’m betting OP hasn’t looked up where Merced is located. It’s a fine school for the CA students it serves, but as non-flagship publics go for this student, TCNJ/NJIT should win over UCM 100 times out of 100; and Pitt/Rutgers probably beat TCNJ/NJIT… so there’s really no need to dig this deep for safeties.

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I agree 100% - and noted.

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OMG i totally forgot about pitt… wow that’s embarrassing.

I’ve even visited and i love the school and campus a lot, so yes that will def be on my list and replace ucm and ucr. This was a very basic list that my counselor gave me for reference, so a lot of the schools i don’t even know much about. I’m realizing now I should probably do a lot more in depth research for most of the schools on this current list and see if they’re actually a good fit for me. thanks for the wake-up call lol.

One more question tho. Do you think it’s worth it for me to ED to Barnard? I mean do you think my app is competitive enough that I stand a chance there? I know that they usually make up more than 50% of their class during that round, so I’m hoping that EDing will sort of carry me through.

If it’s 100% your top choice, then yes.

ED isn’t a game.

So if it’s 100% your top choice, it makes zero sense to ED elsewhere - so give it a shot. Worst case, you get turned down - but you at least gave it your all.

Some look for - where do I have my best chance of getting in. But that’s wrong - because EDing to a place that isn’t one’s first choice makes no sense.

Good luck.

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@tsbna44 “the city” means NYC. That’s what folks around here refer to NYC as.

@dorkyderp17 would you like suggestions of colleges in cities other than NY? You did seem to like the idea of Pitt. With the exception of Georgia Tech, the colleges on your list are further north.

Do you want to remain north of the DC area or are you willing to consider colleges that are in the south.

Also, is proximity to your family important to you!

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Thank you. I know what the city is but there are limited schools in the city. So I found other cities as a contrast to others that weren’t in any city and yet are on OP’s list - which OP, judging by their reaction to my Pitt suggestion, agreed with.

Yes that’s fine! Urban environment of any kind is totally okay with me, Ik some of the schools I have listed are in a rural environment, but as long as there is a rich party and community culture i’ll be happy at a school.

And you have UC Merced ? :slight_smile:

Given the major, prepare to work !! And work !!

I don’t mind going down south either. And closeness to family is not an issue as my parents are looking to move back to india once i commit somewhere. I didn’t really want to stay close to home or in state anyway.