For highly selective LAC definition see post 29.
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With staying in the US long term - my father has a few prospective job offers in the US- if the rest of my family shift after my senior year I would obviously be more inclined to stay than leave.
Why not leave now? Because leaving now means Iâd be placed into a completely different academic system with no clue how it really works and would probably screw my chances of getting into any collegeđ
However that depends on whether he takes the job or not - in the scenario that he takes it would it be easier for me to get a green card/work visa in the US if my father already has one? Would I legally be allowed to stay in the country as a dependent if I didnât secure a job?
Or should I just focus my efforts more on the British university admissions process where Iâm more likely to get a seat, and have less hassle overall for what is you describe to be the same benefits (at least in terms of networking)?
Maybe Iâm overlooking the obvious here but what does this have to do with networking?
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With respect to the undergraduate study of economics, liberal arts colleges and universities offer similar curricula. However, a major distinction of liberal arts colleges is that they are typically purely undergraduate-focused institutions.
If you would like perspective on liberal arts colleges in the context of U.S. schools of higher education generally, this site may be of interest:
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â What habitus and social/economic/cultural capital does this imply and how is it related to networking?
(If need be, look up habitus)
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So this is where it gets a little complicated. Firstly, there is a vast difference between a work visa (a temporary allowance to stay in the country based on employment at a particular company) and a green card (permanent residence, equivalent to indefinite leave to remain in the UK). Sometimes employers will sponsor an employee for a green card but often they will only have them on a work visa. In either case, you are only a dependent until you turn 21. If your father is on a work visa you can be a dependent until 21, but after that you will have to have your own, independent visa (such as a student visa or your own work visa) to remain. If he gets a green card before you turn 21 you will be able to get one too, and then youâre set to stay, work whatever if you want for good. However if he gets it after you turn 21, you donât get any automatic right to stay. He can then sponsor you for a family-based green card but thatâs currently around an 8 year wait before youâd get your own, and again you could not stay in the US during that time unless you have an independent visa of your own. Any company he is talking to should have immigration lawyers who would be able to explain the implications of his move for his family.
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Any Ivy or private will be close to $400,000. A top state school (UVA, U of Mich, UNC) will be around $250,000.
I should also add that which it is makes a difference to college admissions. If itâs a work visa/dependent, you are considered an international student. If you are on a green card, you are considered a domestic student, which confers advantages both in admissions and in available funding sources.
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This is partly what I was referring to in terms of understanding the differences in courses/degree structures between the US and UK in a previous post. Loosely, âliberal artsâ can be understood to refer to the way US undergraduate systems work, where you are generally expected to undertake a broad range of subjects (also known as general education requirements) before declaring a major (there are exceptions, but those are generally for things like architecture or engineering). This compares to the British system where your curriculum will be far more narrowly focused on your intended major and all your courses will normally be directly or closely related to that major.
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So part of what is confusing here is âliberal artsâ is really short for âliberal arts and sciencesâ. In the US, it typically refers to anything broadly considered Humanities, Arts, Natural Sciences, Social Sciences, or Mathematics. Economics is a Social Science, and so it is usually considered within the scope of Liberal Arts and Sciences.
So what isnât Liberal Arts and Sciences? Broadly, more technical, pre-professional, or applied subjects. This can include Engineering, Education, Agriculture, Nursing, Public Health, Business, Accounting, Journalism, Social Work, and so on.
OK, and then just to make this more confusing, while many âliberal arts collegesâ do not offer that other stuff, sometimes they do. Like, some have Engineering. Some have Education. Some have Business. And so on. Often, though, they will say something like they offer that thing within the scope of a broader liberal arts education.
And then just because an undergrad program is part of a research university does not mean it isnât part of the liberal arts tradition. For some universities, there is something like an Arts & Sciences subdivision which contains the core liberal arts and sciences, and then other subdivisions for other stuff. At some universities, though, there are no such subdivisions and they say everything is taught as part of their liberal arts tradition.
This second category even includes MIT, which takes being a part of the liberal arts tradition extremely seriously, even though many of their students do things like Engineering (although to the extent they are doing Natural Sciences or Math, that actually is Liberal Arts and Sciences anyway).
Obviously that is regrettably imprecise, but it is what it isâthe US higher education system is chaos, including with respect to terminology. We seem to like it that way.
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Oh my god you donât understand how much more sense this makes now, I was so confused. Thank you!
For more perspective, but purely by example, students at colleges such as Trinity, Christâs, Pembroke, Peterhouse and Magdalene at Cambridge study liberal arts disciplines, although generally without the curricular freedom available at liberal arts colleges in the U.S.
Wait so you have to pay for state schools too? Then whatâs the real difference between private and state universities?
Because here in the UK, at least for primary and secondary education - state schools (which you call public schools) are 100% free, and private schools (also called independent, or here sometimes called public schools) are, private.
When it comes to higher education every University costs the exact same amount in terms of fees (ÂŁ9250 per annum - around 10,000USD depending on the exchange rate), and unless you are doing a combined masters (usually only for maths or engineering majors) everyoneâs undergraduate course is 3 years. When looking at acceptances Universities only look at your predicted A-level grades (the exams we take at the end of 12th grade, usually 3 or sometimes 4 subjects) and your personal statement, which is much more like âhere is a list of everything Iâve done and read relating to the subject I want to studyâ, less of an essay. Oxbridge also make you write a test and call you in for an interview, but for other schools the process ends here. No well developed ECs, no volunteer work. Nothing.
The interview is also heavily academic- not general like the ones in the US, they are testing your subject knowledge and your approach to understanding new ideas and concepts. Interviews often, if not always include the Interviewer teaching you a new concept you wouldnât have covered, nothing huge, and looking at how you process the information. Other types of questions include things you would never associate with Economics, ie. The infamous horse racing question that you solve using game theory. If youâre interested Iâd recommend looking it up.
People usually take out their own student loans if they canât cover the cost in one go, and if you are disadvantaged (low income, single parent or disabled etc. ) the government might give you some money to help you stay afloat. However financial aid is not a thing the same way it is for US universities. There just isnât enough funding, but I guess it doesnât need to be since it doesnât cost an arm, leg and probably a few other organs to get in.
I know you didnât really ask me a question and this has turned into a whole post as of itself, but just thought if there was anyone else who wants to study in the UK reading this thread it might be useful 
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State universities get some of their funding from the relevant state. So, for example, the state of Michigan is providing funding to the University of Michigan.
One of the conditions of this funding is that they then offer residents of that state a reduced tuition rate. So at the University of Michigan, the nonresident tuition for 2024-25 first years in the College of Literature, Science, and the Arts is $60,946, and for residents of Michigan it is $17,736. I note they estimate the full cost of attendance for residents (including living expenses, books and such, transportation, and miscellaneous) is actually $36,932.
Pausing here, I think it is often shocking to non-US families that it would cost that much even for residents. And it doesnât cost that much in every state, and it also doesnât cost that much at every public college in Michigan. But I believe the least expensive four-year college in Michigan (which I believe is Saginaw Valley State) is still $12,150 for tuition and fees, $26,910 including everything.
OK, so what if you are a Michigan resident, can be admitted to the University of Michigan, but canât afford that? Well, you can apply for need-based aid. You may qualify for Federal grants, and the state of Michigan also has its own grant programs. And finally, the University of Michigan also has its own grants.
In fact, the University of Michigan is among the US colleges that has recently announced more generous need aidâif your family income is $125,000 or under, and your assets are also $125,000 or under, you automatically qualify for free tuition for the fall of 2025. This is up from $75K/$75K. I note, though, this only applies to Michigan residents. The University of Michigan does have some need-based aid for nonresidents (not all public universities do), but it does not guarantee it will be nearly as generous.
OK, so being a state university in this case means the University of Michigan offers a much lower tuition to state residents, and then on top of that also offers more generous need-based aid to state residents.
But if you donât qualify for need-based grants, it can still be shockingly expensive by non-US standards.
As a final thoughtâUS parents who are aware of all this and have enough income will often save in advance for college. Indeed, they might start saving more or less from the childâs birth, or in some senses even before that. And if they have enough income and save long enough, not only might they have saved enough for in-state costs at a college like the University of Michigan, they might have saved enough for even what it will cost to go out of state or to a private college.
So this is one of the sources of culture clash when even higher income non-US families start looking at US colleges. Not necessarily being aware of what US colleges actually cost absent need aid (which is very hard to get as a non-US-resident), they will not have saved in the way a similar US family might have saved.
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That explains all those movies where people start college funds for their newborn children 
Most people here pay off their loans themselves once they get a job, and the loan is in your name not your parentsâ.
Yeah, loans is a whole other topic.
There is a limited amount of federal loans available or undergraduate students, which can be subsidized with demonstrated need. Then parents of dependent undergraduates can also get some more in federal loans.
The other main type of student loans is private (there apparently are also some educational institutions that have loan programs but it is pretty rare). Usually you will need a qualified co-signer like a parent, although I have heard with good enough credit history you might be able to get a small loan without a co-signer. Not usually a practical option, though, as most undergraduates wonât have built up such a credit history.
Parents then may also take out private loans without the student as a co-signer, and in fact they may be able to do that without even calling it a student loan (like if they borrow against home equity, for example).
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Just to clarify for OP that federal loans are only available to domestic students. (One of the differences i mentioned above re domestic vs international status)
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And also: OPâs parents (as non US residents) will likely not get loans from US lenders.
Unfortunately these are outdated numbers. Both UMich and UVA will cost around $330k.
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Yes, sorry, I was still in the context of explaining how it works for US students. But it is very important to keep that context clear.
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In addition, each university can set its fees to whatever it wants and can calculate âfinancial needâ the way it wants. Some consider the full equity (which in the US is the amount already paid for your house and against which owners can borrow - not common elsewhere), some a percentage, some not at all. And financial aid is also up to the university - some âmeet needâ the way they define it, some donât.
Another difference: in the UK, student loan reimbursement is linked to income. Graduates donât have to pay back till they earn a certain amount. About 48% never have to pay back anything (the system was cheaper overall when each university received a lump sum for funding separate from fees and fees were set at 3k, because many more students could pay back the loans; because of the risk, interest rates have been modified and the income threshold lowered; as a result, families who can pay the ÂŁ9k outright are now in a very very good position compared to those who canât). However, the loans have been sold to various groups so a student may end up paying back 100k (due to interest) over 30 years.
In the US, college graduates have to pay back their loan a few months after they stop being enrolled or after they graduate, regardless of whether they have a job or earn enough. Federal loans are set so students can pay them back over 10 years. However when students have other loans, it becomes a nightmare they may not be able to get out of.
And, for internationals, these added elements:
Like everywhere in the world, inflation has been high (though lower in the US than in the UK: peak inflation was 8% in the US, over 11% in the UK; itâs now the same in both countries) so all prices have increased, including collegesâ.
There was a lot of price gouging too, due to some regulations being weaker than in the rest of the MEDC world.
Unlike the rest of the world, salaries have grown a lot too, meaning some people have kept the same living standard (AFAIK thereâs not been a new reappearance of Victorian diseases such as scurvy, unlike in the UK/EU - healthy/life indicators actually show improvement for 2023-2024 although they were really bad so it may even outâŠ); many have actually seen their salaries/wages/income grow, even if their âinternal price estimatorâ - what people instinctively âknowâ âhow muchâ something is supposed to cost - still sees things as way too expensive and housing costs are a huge problem on top of every day prices.
Itâs not uncommon for college graduates to have a 50-60k salary and many would consider 40k low. Many engineers are in the 80+K range right out of college. As a result, prices also reflect purchasing power at the middle and upper middle class levels. The difference between the UK/EU and the US became really stark in 2024 (and led to the Draghi report).
To see costs and their variations:
Run the NPC on University of Michigan, Western Michigan University, University of Washington, Boston College, Harvard, Amherst. (Pretend youâre a Michigan resident).
Notice the cost of tuition/fees but also housing and food costs (âroom&boardâ) and the net cost.
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