<p>I thought this recent interview in The Blue & White, re-posted on Bwog, might be particularly enjoyable for the new admits/prospective admits for Fall 2011.</p>
<p>[From</a> the Issue: Who Are These Kids? – Bwog](<a href=“http://bwog.com/2011/04/25/from-the-issue-who-are-these-kids/]From”>http://bwog.com/2011/04/25/from-the-issue-who-are-these-kids/)</p>
<p>I hate to sound superficial, but they really, and I mean really, need to change the name of the school.</p>
<p>Very interesting, thanks for posting!</p>
<p>what is the issue with the name? </p>
<p>i liked the article although it (along with the comments) made me even more nervous about the whole financial aid/cost of attendance issue. am i being irresponsible to pick GS over a state school? this is the question that i ask myself daily… </p>
<p>current GSers, why and how did you make the choice to go to Columbia, knowing that financial aid would be sub-par?</p>
<p>General Studies, as a term outside Columbia, can have a bad connotation: [Bachelor</a> of General Studies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_General_Studies]Bachelor”>Bachelor of General Studies - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>Thanks for posting the interview!</p>
<p>campaigner: it is true that the BGS degree has a negative connotation to it. That said, GS students do not earn a BGS degree, but rather, they earn the same exact degree that Colubmia CC students earn: BA/BS.</p>
<p>FalmaMom - yup. However many folks aren’t aware of that, so hearing “GS” implies BGS, which sounds sucky. That’s the concern over the name.</p>
<p>Here’s an interesting article on the outrageous cost of tuition, [n+1:</a> Bad Education](<a href=“http://nplusonemag.com/bad-education]n+1:”>Bad Education | Online Only | n+1) and how it seems to be a bubble even worse than housing.</p>
<p>FalmaMom, you are correct. That is part of why there is a sense that, to which Dean Awn alludes, the name “School of General Studies” is inappropriate for the school in its contemporary existence.</p>
<p>Liz, the financial issue is really hard for many GS students, myself among them. You’ll have to answer that question for yourself once you have received your award information. For me, I decided that the program at Columbia was a great enough fit for both my academic interests as well as my goals that it warranted pursuit at all costs. I feel deeply conflicted about whether or not this is the right decision.</p>
<p>I am in the process of completing my first semester here. I expect to complete it with a 3.75-4.00 GPA (12 credits). I am truly hoping that my financial aid award for the coming school year increases somewhat substantially based on my academic performance this semester. If it does not, I am strongly considering leaving Columbia for a less expensive and/or better funded program. I don’t want to, I really don’t. But I’m torn.</p>
<p>I love it here, and I’m doing well, so I honestly don’t know whether or not I’d even have the guts to leave, even if GS offered me no money at all (speaking rhetorically). But this is the kind of struggle that many of us deal with to varying degrees.</p>
<p>You’ll have to decide what you’re comfortable with. But know that either way, whether you reject Columbia because you know that [insert school X] will afford you a great education without 6 digits of debt, or you charge ahead to GS with the willingness to borrow whatever the cost, there are people here who have made the same decision. They’re both totally valid, totally respectable.</p>
<p>Campainger,</p>
<p>Thanks for posting the article. It is amazing that education costs increased so dramatically since 1978. Scary!</p>
<p>I do agree that the name “Columbia School of General Studies” doesn’t have a very nice (or prestigious) ring to it… I’d also love to have the college be named, as Dean Awn suggested, after a woman… it is about time…</p>
<p>That said, nevertheless the degree and the name Columbia on the diploma are the most valuable outcomes of the GS education. It is prestigious in itself and highly marketable. Hopefully, the name change will follow in the years to come…</p>
<p>MusaeumClausum,</p>
<p>I cannot agree with you more that the name “General Studies” is inappropriate today. I assume, however, that changing the college’s name is not a very trivial/easy process. Hopefully, they’ll get to it eventually…</p>
<p>On a side note: your accomplishments at Columbia are very impressive. A 3.75-4.00 GPA is not easy to obtain at an institution such as Columbia! From what I understand, financial aid does tend to increase at GS over time, especially for students with high standings. I hope you’ll be able to remain at Columbia and graduate with a BA/BS from this incredible institution Good luck!</p>
<p>Liz–</p>
<p>I applied to Columbia on a whim. I was at a private university and was getting weary of their politics. I didn’t get into Yale’s EWSP and a friend off-handedly recommended looking into GS.</p>
<p>I was accepted and then had to deal with moving, finals, and a horrendous winter. In the space of six weeks, I held down my GPA, got rid of all my furniture, dealt with private loans, said goodbye to my friends and found my way up here to the UWS. I didn’t have a lot of time to think about it. My family has always been incredibly obsessed with education (both parents are academics) and so I felt it my duty–even as an adult–to go to an Ivy. The tuition terrified me. The cost of living in NYC blew me away: imagine doing all your grocery shopping in an airport and you’ll have some idea of what it’s like to live here. But I bit the bullet.</p>
<p>Like MC, I am doing very well here. I’ll probably finish this semester with a 3.75 - 4.0 (assuming I don’t bomb my finals…knock on wood) and I’ve had some incredible professors, made some amazing friends (MC included) and had a great time. </p>
<p>But the money is a serious, serious, serious issue and I don’t believe that a Columbia diploma is going to be the meal ticket that some people assure me it will be, especially with the amount of debt that I’ll be carrying. </p>
<p>Before anyone starts carrying on about how it’s the “person and not the degree,” stop. I realize that. I also realize that if that’s the case, then I’ll be successful wherever I go. </p>
<p>I am fairly certain that I’ll be leaving C.U. soon. The money is simply too much for what the pay off is. I have other options–good ones–that would have me graduating a year before I would if I stay here. I adore my apartment and Columbia, but GS simply costs too much for the amount of uncertainty that comes with it. It’s been a good experience, but I will most likely leave.</p>
<p>Let me say, first off, that GS is expensive. And that an ivy league degree (either from GS, CC, Harvard or Yale) should never be thought of as a “meal ticket.” I have friends who went to UPenn Wharton, Yale, Harvard, and CC and they all, to a tee, have pretty mediocre jobs. I went to an elite boarding school (Exeter Academy-esque) and an elite private school out of high school, and a lot of my peers went to ivies. Alumni connection aside, the reality is that where one went to undergrad, through the prism of job prospects, is pointless. If you want to use education as a tool for financial gain, your going to have to go to grad school (business, law, medicine). To navigate thought the job market without a a grad school degree is tough. Undergrad is merely a primer for grad school, and GS (while insanely expensive) is a GREAT primer. You will be pushed to the limits academically, and will be ready for any future academic endeavor. </p>
<p>I find it strange that people on here would move to NY, get an apartment, and enroll into school without researching the financial aid situation (or lack there of) at GS. The horrid FA that comes with Attending GS is well documented. Not knowing, full well, the financial situation before enrolling is just down-right irresponsible. </p>
<p>I’m a junior at GS and have loved every minute of it here. I came here wanting to learn at one of the finest universities in the world, and I am getting just that. I had the option of attending UCLA and Berkeley, but I chose Columbia and do not regret this decision one bit.</p>
<p>I you come here, come here to enrich your mind. Just know that your going to leave here in huge debt. </p>
<p>UCLA and Berkeley are fine institutions, but having a chance to study at one of the finest universities in the world is priceless. You will meet amazing people, have opportunities that you never thought possible, and leave here wih an ivy league degree (certainly not a meal-ticket, but something you will cherish for the rest of your life).</p>
<p>Sorry for the sloppy post, wrote this on my iPhone and I’m still no used to the touch screen.</p>
<p>Given that I’m taking responsibility for my choices and finances, I’m not sure that “irresponsible” is accurate. I did my due diligence. I was willing to take my chances.</p>
<p>Now I am not. Not worth it. </p>
<p>I’ll be the first to admit that I was drawn in by the Ivy allure.</p>
<p>Yeah, it’s not really a matter of whether or not one knows the costs associated with the degree, as certainly one sees and understands one’s aid offer prior to the beginning of the term. Rather, as BB describes, it is a matter of rethinking those costs after having been here.</p>
<p>As Skip Bailey, director of Fin. Aid at GS has described, one must perform a cost/benefit analysis. People don’t like to apply something so crass to what is supposed to be a higher, humanistic pursuit. But it must be done. A degree, particularly from an elite private university, is not priceless. It has a very real cost. Some people think 80-100k in loans (not including interest) is worth it. Others don’t. But you can’t blame one for at least giving it a shot.</p>
<p>Taking responsibility for one’s actions and acting irresponsibly are two separate things. Not taking the time to fully deduce the horrid financial aid situation at GS before enrolling is irresponsible. </p>
<p>I understand your point though, but the “ivy allure” you allude to is never worth 100k in debt. Prestige chasing is a dangerous game when the cost is as astronomically high as GS. </p>
<p>One should only come here if they want to recieve a unique and world class education. An extra 100k in cash wouldn’t hurt either. </p>
<p>It really is a shame though, because MC and BB seem like really smart and thoughtfull people. Hopefully GS will fix the fin aid situation one day, so we won’t lose such seemingly great students. </p>
<p>Quick note: I am fortunate enough to have my entire undergrad/grad school education fully paid-for (I was not in the military). So my opinion is coming from someone who does not have to worry about finances.</p>
<p>I don’t blame people for “giving it shot.” But the exorbitant cost was there before you enrolled, and it will be there after you leave/graduate. How attending GS for a mere 4 months made you reassess the inherent worth of a Columbia degree is beyond me. To be honest, outside of the gates of Columbia and south of 114th street, the CC, SEAS, and GS distinctions become blurred. I know from people who are GS grads. The only people who might intrinsically care are some CC alumni who will not be able to get over the differing admission’s standards. But who would want to work for someone who is going to judge you on how hard it was to get into college, rather than what you did while you were there. </p>
<p>Maintaining a 4.0 or 3.9 at Columbia University, GS or not, is quite an accomplishment, and employers will take note. </p>
<p>BA (insert major here), Columbia University 2013 summa cum laude; is a relatively marketable addition to anyone’s resume (grad school notwithstanding). </p>
<p>And maybe it’s just the people in my immediate inner circle, but nobody I know has used, or ever will use, their respective alumni connections. You make your own connections, period. And if you need a university system to make those connections for you, then youre probably not going to make the kind of money that youre hoping for (this a general youre and is not directed at MC, or anyone on this board).</p>
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<p>And if I were to leave after two semesters? Three semesters? Where would that put me but deeper into the bank’s pockets? It’s not a question of reassessing the “inherent worth” of a Columbia degree. Time to cut my losses. </p>
<p>It’s a cost/benefit analysis that comes from the strain of seeing the possibility of six figures of debt every f**king morning. Unless you’re staring down the barrel of that gun and living with that understanding every single day, I’m not sure you’re in a position to really understand what kind of pressure that creates or how it can very quickly make you reassess your motives and your goals. </p>
<p>I don’t need a scolding from a stranger that I was “acting irresponsibly” and I’d prefer not to wrangle with semantics. At one point I thought I could deal with the FinAid situation. I now realize that was an error. </p>
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</p>
<p>Yes, it is. I hope that the people reading this board will consider that.</p>
<p>I should also point out that I’m not slamming Columbia or GS here. Columbia’s a fantastic school and my friends here are some of the best under the sun. </p>
<p>This decision isn’t an easy one to make, but the reality of it has really sunk in this semester and despite the fact that I’m “doing well” here, the financial pressure trumps whatever benefits I think I stand to gain.</p>
<p>“[…]but having a chance to study at one of the finest universities in the world is priceless.”</p>
<p>No education, in real dollars, is priceless to me. I’m going to walk with, if my FA stays roughly the same, thirty-something grand. That’s absurd for someone who receives Pell Grants. A hundred thousand is absolute robbery.</p>
<p>I’ve managed to keep my cost down by working two jobs and paying all of my living expenses out of pocket. But, because I’ve had to do that, I feel like I’ve missed out on a lot of things the university has to offer.</p>
<p>“However many folks aren’t aware of that, so hearing “GS” implies BGS, which sounds sucky.”</p>
<p>I am a senior at GS, and I have never heard of a BGS, because IT DOES NOT EXIST! Where are you getting this false information from? Source please! GS students earn the exact same = equivalent = on par = degree that CC students receive. We take the same classes and sit side by side with the same professors. Major requirements are identical. We use the same library, shop in the same bookstores, get coffee together at the same cafes. </p>
<p>If you want to talk about real differences, consult a matriculating student like myself. Here are some of the disparities:</p>
<p>GS students do not have the same access to financial resources that other students have, because the endowment is smaller. At CC, if your parents make a combined income under a certain amount, you get a free ride. Not so at GS. This is why so many GS students leave for other schools.</p>
<p>Students who study at Columbia and the Jewish Theological Seminary are GS students. This joint program falls under Columbia General Studies, but not all joint programs do. For example, the Juilliard joint program is now only under CC. At one point GS had a joint program with Juilliard, but it was cancelled. There was no grand father clause for students who came to GS with the intent of attending Juilliard concomitantly. The dean also did nothing to protect them. </p>
<p>GS students enjoy generally nice accommodations, but they are not directly on the campus. Sometimes they are one block away, some much farther. Although GS housing is nicer than traditional dorms, the trade off is distance.</p>
<p>GS students do not have the same access to facilities as other students. The ID swipe does not get GS students into certain buildings, and the issues seems like it will never be resolved. Again, the administration in general, and the dean of GS in specific really could care less.</p>
<p>GS students can no longer attend Teachers College. This was a wonderful cross registration program that the dean of GS, Peter Awn, ended a few years ago. He never gave a reason why, as he seldom does about anything. </p>
<p>GS does not bind its students to the university through social processes as well as other schools. Yes, we have a yearly gala, but not everyone can go do to size limitations. Accordingly, those who don’t attend end up subsidizing those that do, because the cost of ticket is only a fraction of the real cost of the event. Regardless, our orientation process is not as strong as other colleges within the university. Does anyone even know the lyrics to our Alma Mater? They don’t even play it at graduation any more. That is definitely NOT the case at CC.</p>
<p>Now, here are some things you may not realize about GS:</p>
<p>GS has the premiere postbac premed program in the country. GS sends more students to top medical schools than any other college in the nation, and yes that includes CC. </p>
<p>Many GS students are celebrities. I’ve taken classes with numerous television stars, a Miss Universe, and the daughter of a national political figure. GS tends to draw the Hollywood crowd, in my opinion, simply because of its location in New York City. GS also does not punish you if you need to leave for a semester or even a year to do a project, like a movie. This is very alluring to actors in particular. </p>
<p>Many many many GS students go on to Harvard, Penn, Princeton, Stanford, Yale and just about any other so called “elite” institution. GS students are sought out and highly regarded in grad school admissions. I have already been accepted to Harvard and Stanford, both typical schools that continually accept GS students. When I went to Stanford for an interview, they were most impressed that I attended GS, not CC. </p>
<p>So there you have some basic facts about Columbia School of General Studies. We would all be better off if you would stop posting conjecture as fact and myth as reality.</p>