<p>^Haha thanks I hope you read my last long-winded reply to iCalc in that other thread before everything was deleted. I didn’t want that to go to waste! I think I’m just a lot better at arguing for or against a claim, although technically everything’s an argument. </p>
<p>Yeah I hope the guidance was good, and it seems my essays are on a better track although heck who knows? I’m thinking about some medical related ones (I forgot the names), but mainly there’s this one on college admissions that sounds really interesting.</p>
<p>Are you thinking of any or are you >sophomore? </p>
<p>
Haha I’m sure I’ll need it if I ever go to them. SIS is responsible for IHUM too right? Although I personally liked IHUM, it seems a lot of students didn’t. I could be the leader of a revolt against the SIS.</p>
<p>Senior0991, my son would certainly relate to everything you’ve said. He didn’t attend Stanford, but really, really hated writing personal statements. He could write a tremendous research paper on absolutely anything, but talking about himself, his feelings or his preferences was just uninteresting to him. That might be why he didn’t do it very well. For one thing, he doesn’t believe touchy-feely stuff like that has any place in a university context.</p>
<p>Personal statement writing is an art, really. You need to sound bright, competent, and deserving, without coming off as pompous, arrogant, or entitled. That is a balance many kids don’t know how to strike. My D was working on her essay yesterday. She’s better at this stuff than her brother, but even she was worrying about getting it right. (Which brings to mind my strong suspicion that this process has a gender bias, ie. that girls are probably way better at personal statements than boys. At the very least, there is probably a bias toward humanities and social science kids.) D wants to communicate that she has some background to bring to the table and that her background is a good reason to accept her, but worries that how she’s saying that makes it seem like she thinks she already knows a lot about the subject, which she is well aware that she doesn’t. She was getting so disgusted with that “stupid essay” that she decided she would only apply to one IntroSem and if she didn’t get in, then oh well. I’d offer to help her, but I’m not good at that kind of writing either.</p>
<p>(But don’t mind me. The tuition bill was just e-mailed and so I’m pretty ticked off at Stanford right now. We got a financial aid pre-read done, and then of course we got the FA award at acceptance time. I just LOVE how much more we’re paying than what they forecast twice previously that we’d have to pay. So the fact that my D can’t take any class she wants to at a school which costs $56,000 annoys me. Doesn’t Stanford (and all the other top schools) tout their low faculty student ratio and class size? So now you have to apply to get in the small classes? It doesn’t sit well with me at all.)</p>
<p>Senior0991, I think a lot of the IntroSems sound good for each quarter. I haven’t made a final decision yet whether I’ll apply for fall or wait till winter quarter. I’m planning on a couple of very intense courses for fall, including Math 51H, and I don’t want to exceed 15 units for fall so I can have time left over for extracurriculars and getting to know lots of people. So we shall see. I have a couple of statements ready to go in case I decide to apply before the deadline for fall. I hear that 51H starts out as a fairly small class and becomes a very small class as the drop deadline approaches, and my other main class will be quite small as well, so only IHUM lecture will be big.</p>
<p>TheGFG, I agree that personal statement writing is an art. If your D doesn’t wind up getting into one for fall, maybe she can go to the Hume Writing Center (as Senior0991 did, albeit a bit belatedly) for tips for the next quarter. You sound kind of surprised that admission to the IntroSems is by application, but that’s not a new policy or anything. Information about IntroSems has been available on the Stanford website for a long time.</p>
Yeah for anyone who thinks the applications end for a brief bit when you get into college, that’s just wrong. I thought that going in and boy was I surprised. I’m sure even LACs have application processes for clubs or maybe even some classes. </p>
<p>With some clubs, almost every summer job, most introsems, some themed-houses, study-abroad (although that seems pretty lax for the like half of them), student staff positions, all but one sophomore college/arts intensive (had space open) requiring an application, it doesn’t end. </p>
<p>Maybe I shouldn’t have gone to college! Although it is really the time of my life, and I’m sure I’ll make up that 200,000 dollars after graduation if I so desire. I’m somewhat worried that I’ll end up in a job which didn’t require any college at all, although I doubt I’ll ever be in a worse-off scenario for having gone to college.</p>
<p>As far as small classes go, PWR is small, sections are small, and I took one class winter-quarter with like 20 students and 5-person sections (no app process needed). For most things, the more advanced you go, the less people will be taking it. So intro science classes have engineering students, pre-meds, science students, and a lot of other students just interested in taking them. But then you’ll just take classes with people in your broad discipline, then your major, then your concentration in your major (if there is one). So it seems to be really just a first and second year thing. Even then, it’s not like the class size will prevent you from asking questions (in most cases) or being able to talk with the professor after class or in office hours. You just have to be a bit more proactive than in smaller classes.</p>
<p>Senior0991, I think it’s definitely rational to wonder about other ways all that money could be spent, especially for those of us whose families have to shell out sticker price tuition. If I were thinking about college only in terms of getting a job, I’m not sure I could consider it rational to pay so much. However, I think of it in much broader terms, and Stanford is probably the only place that I think could be worth such a big investment in my particular case.</p>
<p>For us full or near full pay students, we could have written our “why Stanford” essays on why we are paying that much for it. Like starting it out by saying “Why would I ever even consider turning down 200,000 staring at me right in the face?” Then go on to explain why. </p>
<p>Anyways I’m sometimes kinda jealous of the people who get full-aid. Although I am very grateful that my family is in the situation where I do not need that, it’s still gets me when I think of such a sweet deal they have! And some of (who I would consider very well-off) friends get a lot of aid because of divorces or retirement or whatever. </p>
<p>The joke that we sometimes say during finals week is: why are my parents paying 50 grand for me to (for all intensive purposes) work ten hours a day? </p>
<p>Anyways just some random musings on that subject.</p>
<p>My AP Euro teacher used to say “intensive purposes” too, and it made me giggle.</p>
<p>(Anyways, if it helps, I’d much rather be full pay than be faced with my electricity getting cut off tomorrow… you win some, you lose some. But even if I was full pay I’d be hard pressed to pay $50,000 for any school. Kudos to your parents.)</p>
<p>I can’t really imagine what it is like to pay full tuition and still have to apply to things. I won’t know until graduate school since I’m basically going for 1500 per quarter. So from my perspective, i can still see the privilege part of the argument. I’m lucky enough to be going for such little money so i don’t mind having to apply, but for people not receiving aid, it has to seem kind of unfair</p>
<p>I think introsem applications are inherently different from say something like a college application. My experience with introsem apps has always been, if you convey that you’re seriously interested (and not in the platitude-heavy way of a college application) and have real stories or examples conveying your interest, you’ll get in.</p>
<p>Having to apply to introsems or certain student groups doesn’t mean that you’re being “kept” out of those activities. You can still do a directed reading on a certain topic, take an advanced seminar on the topic, or do research on a certain topic. Even research grants, you apply because you’re receiving generous funding for your research. Just because you got into Stanford, it doesn’t mean you have to stop explaining your interest.</p>
<p>Sure it’s frustrating when you don’t get into a certain introsem. But it’s seriously harmful to feel like some great injustice was done because you have to apply. Part of Stanford’s draw is that there are so many ways to get involved in whatever you want. A simple application, while requiring some thought, shouldn’t stop you from pursuing what you want to do. If your applications isn’t successful, you tried, now find a different way to get involved. For research grants, there are many many advisors on hand to make sure you get your research grants. In my highly unscientific personal observations, all my friends sought advice from these grant advisors, and all received research grants.</p>
<p>Also I want to stress that though you submit applications for introsems, research grants, etc., the competition isn’t extremely difficult or anything. Many introsems don’t even get more than 15 applications, and although the more popular introsems will be hard to get into, I don’t want to convey that application based things at Stanford are all difficult to get.</p>
<p>NJDS, I appreciate your looking at the IntroSem issue from the full-pay perspective. However, I’d like to assure you, and everyone else who may read these threads, that I absolutely do NOT think that it’s unfair for any student to have to apply for IntroSems, including those of us from full-pay families. I wouldn’t want preferential treatment in any aspect of university life on the basis of being full-pay–that would be elitist in the extreme and demeaning to everyone.</p>
<p>Full-pay families subsidize all kinds of campus resources that their own students may never need or choose to avail themselves of, but they do it because they believe that having those resources and opportunities available enriches the experience for all students. In some cases, we even choose the astronomical price tag over National Merit Scholar free rides elsewhere, because we believe the differential in education and overall experience will be worth it. Speaking personally, I expect the value to be there for me at Stanford, and whether I obtain that value will be largely a function of how well I take advantage of all of the opportunities Stanford will present to me. I think that is true of every student, but there is a lot of consciousness about it among students who are using a big chunk of their families’ resources to attend, except perhaps for a tiny number of irredeemably spoiled kids.</p>
<p>On thing I’ve observed (on these boards, and elsewhere)that I find kind of disconcerting is that families who receive substantial aid tend to complain much more about all kinds of campus-related things than do families who are paying full cost. It’s hard to figure out why that is; my best guess is that it springs from greater anxiety about the transition to college, coupled with greater stress about meeting even the very reduced portion of expenses they directly bear, but I don’t really know. I just can’t imagine that mindset if I were being given all or a very substantial part of the enormous cost of attending a top college.</p>
<p>i dont think its unfair myself because its a great way to assemble an interested, diverse, passionate class. but i can see why some people would think it is unfair.</p>
<p>^to your comment about complainy people, i can see that even from where i am. i think a some people think they are entitled to everything just because they come from a disadvantaged background. i have spoken to some students, and they think that because of their background, they not only deserve the financial aid but also shouldnt have to do things like have to pay ANYTHING and shouldnt have to have a campus job (i definitely dont think this is a majority, but i have seen enough people like this to make the statement). honestly, i can’t say i have ever had a real complaint about stanford since being admitted besides petty things because i can always find some justification for the things stanford requires of students (even if its not the best reason)</p>
I never thought of us (full-pay) having to apply as unfair or even bad in the slightest way. In fact I never really even thought of that.</p>
<p>My mom, on the other hand, is a different story. I tell her I get rejected from a lot of things and she’ll ask like “well what are we paying for then!?” She has a strong sense of entitlement (to say the least).</p>
<p>Props to you, NJDS, for not succumbing to that sense of entitlement, and to you, Senior0991, for resisting it despite your mom displaying it. : )</p>
<p>One of the biggest problems for kids who arrive at top colleges with an entitlement mindset is that the chips on their shoulders can prevent them from gaining some of the most important benefits that they are there to derive. They might make unfounded assumptions about other students, or isolate themselves in certain ways, or otherwise shoot themselves in the foot socially. IMHO, if each student (irrespective of prior circumstance) can arrive at Stanford primarily aware of their amazing fortune at having the opportunity to attend, he or she will maximize his/her chances for a transformative experience.</p>
<p>NJDS saidi: “i dont think its unfair myself because its a great way to assemble an interested, diverse, passionate class. but i can see why some people would think it is unfair.”</p>
<p>Presumably, everyone who gets into an elite school like Stanford (which has a 7% admissions rate!) is going to be interested in learning and passionate about a subject or two. So I think that claim is a little silly, though not doubt you’re only repeating what the school is saying.</p>
<p>As for the complaining, I think that it’s because Stanford is among the best of the best. Kid work so hard and sacrifice so much to even get admitted, and parents struggle to pay for both the preparation for admissions, and then what they believe will be a superior education or their son or daughter. So I guess the expectations are high that the actual experience will be worth all the arm and leg it cost. And even kids on financial aid probably had better financial options than Stanford, such as free rides to state schools, or even better FA packages at the Ivies. Thus, there’s a sense of needing to see that Stanford will be all it’s cracked up to be, and that the student will succeed in taking advantage of what is offered. It’s one thing if your kid is lazy and parties all the time, and that’s why he doesn’t flourish. It’s quite another if he tries to do all that is required but gets knocked out every time through no apparent fault of his own. </p>
<p>And a student’s socio-economic background does sometimes play a part in this whole situation. For example, let’s say Student A wants to work for the college newspaper. During high school, she always had to babysit her younger siblings after school and couldn’t participate in the school newspaper. Student B, on the other hand, was editor of her school paper. Both apply to be reporters for the university newspaper. Who gets the job? Or if you come from money and were able to work at the big financial firm where your dad is CEO every summer in high school, then you’ll probably have an easier time earning a spot in any of the student-run companies, etc. This may not be exactly how it works at S, but it was how it worked at my son’s Ivy. Experience will land you bigger and better experiences, and privileged kids come to college with more of that. So kids can feel frustrated that here they are at this great school, but now they lack what they need to access the opportunities.</p>
<p>TheGFG, those are good points about prior experience paving the way for future experience. I’m under the impression, from conversations I’ve had with current Stanford students and alums, that Stanford tries to be more sensitive to that issue than most of the Ivies, so we’ll see. That kind of awareness is among the many things that makes Stanford far more appealing to me than the Ivies as a group.</p>
<p>Hey, sorry to be a bit off topic of the main theme here, but I just have a simple question: if you apply to an intro sem and get accepted, can you drop it in the first week? I ask because I’m thinking about applying to two seminars that have conflicting times, and if I happen to get accepted into both, I want to know if I can drop one. Thanks!</p>
<p>sarah, the way I read the information, you have to rank your IntroSems. So if you apply to a pair that meet at overlapping times, make sure you rank your first choice appropriately.Also, I haven’t seen anything to suggest you couldn’t drop an IntroSem just like any other course you might decide to drop before the deadline.</p>
<p>You definitely can drop an introsem as long as it’s before the drop deadline. If you’re doing so, it’d be nice of you to drop it ASAP (as soon as you know you don’t want it) so someone else can get in if there’s a waitlist. Also, if I remember correctly, you’re supposed to go to the first class meetings anyway or you may get dropped from the roster… so if you have 2 at the same time, you have to choose the one you like better and you’ll likely be dropped from the one you don’t show up to for the first few days.</p>
<p>i’m not THAT interested in autumn quarter seminars for freshman preference.
and i know they say not to hold off taking one in hopes of getting a later one, but i think i will anyway.
but i was wondering…do you think it’s worth applying anyway, even if i’m not going to take it? (just to see what kind of application essays faculty members are looking for, etc.)?</p>