<p>The Intro Seminar Catalogue just came out and I have a few questions.</p>
<p>How hard is it to get the Intro Seminar that you want? (a relatively more popular one)
Is the application really serious? I saw that Hume offers tutoring for people just to write an application, so it seems like a big deal.
Also, say you are waitlisted, is it common for a few people to get the class after being waitlisted?</p>
<p>first i will say that introsems are the best and generally an amazing experience.</p>
<p>if the introsem is really popular or it fulfills some great GER (eg. write-2 or something), then the introsem will be hard to get into. i don’t think acceptance rates are published anywhere, but i wouldn’t bank on any of those for your schedule until you have the acceptance in hand. work hard on those applications. otherwise, i think getting into one or more introsems frosh or soph year is very easily doable. and they give preference to people who haven’t taken one as time goes on, so you’ll likely get to take one eventually if you want to and keep trying.
the application seems serious, but i don’t think it’s a major deal unless you’re applying for a popular introsem. some are even by lottery. as long as you coherently and eloquently express why you want to take the class and what you’d bring to the table, i think you’d have a good shot at it. the Hume offers tutoring for any writing piece so that is probably directed at the people, especially some of the really techie types, who have trouble expressing thought clearly and concisely in writing. maybe they’d need this help, but i’d guess that the average person is okay.
if you get waitlisted and want to get in, go the the beginning classes and talk to the prof about how you really want to take the class. some people will inevitably drop the class and if you show enough interest, there is a good to great chance that the prof will let you in. if you show no interest and don’t show up in the beginning, you’ll likely not get off the waitlist. but who knows? each case is different.
anyway, after the application deadline/introsem enrollment has passed they often send out a list of introsems with open spots. i know people who just looked at the list, found one they liked with open space, shot the prof an “i want to take this class, would you please add me to the list” email and were in like that. no application, no stress. (i wouldn’t bank on that though.)</p>
<p>also, we have like 4 weeks to apply. does the timing of our application matter at all?
just cause i’m not rushing…i don’t know if i should be?</p>
<p>timing does not matter at all. you can edit your app until the deadline. actually, they don’t even look at them until the deadline.</p>
<p>earthwise: thanks for delivering a blow to my ego haha.</p>
<p>God i’ve had horrible experiences applying to introsems and similar stuff like Sophomore college and arts intensive. I’ve submitted 3 introsem apps each quarter, to ones that I’m confident will not be the most popular hard to get into ones. All I have to show is being 8th on the waitlist for this one class (never pursued because I already had 4 classes) and 2 acceptances to introsems which had space available (aka I could’ve gotten in with a one-sentence statement). For sophomore college and arts intensive, six apps, one waitlist, zero acceptances.</p>
<p>So do take these things seriously. I consider myself a pretty decent writer. I’m coherent, I can be funny if I desire, I put together solid arguments, etc. For my dozen or so academic essays this year, I had two worse than a 90. But when it comes to these short personal statements, I suck balls. I can’t stand it, especially when I see my friends, who are horrid writers to be honest, getting into these things and then talking about how easy it was to do so. </p>
<p>So yeah for this upcoming quarter I’m gonna be sending my essays to HUME or whatever and see if they’ll help me. I recommend you do the same, although some people have a knack for getting into these things without any help.</p>
<p>The one introsem I did take (physics 45N) was a really cool, interesting, and educating class. It was one unit so it wasn’t much work.</p>
<p>Haha, I’m so sorry!! I didn’t mean it like that at all.</p>
<p>Yeah, most of my (and anyone’s) opinions should be taken with a grain of salt. Although I’m kind of a techie major, I’m definitely a fuzzy at heart. I love writing (especially about myself haha), love reading, and do both a lot, so maybe I just find these things easier? I’ve never had trouble getting into any of those things; the hardest part for me has been just choosing which ones to accept. That just goes to show how much an experience can vary by person.
But yeah, that being said, I didn’t mean to blow off the apps (especially SoCo/AI), I just meant not to obsess over them. I just try to concisely, thoughtfully present myself as well as possible, and it’s worked for me. Amazing experiences all around. Everyone should definitely just do what works for them personally and get all the available help if they need it, not just for this but for anything.</p>
<p>^No worries. It’s more me and my hatred for those apps and my envy of people like you that’s getting me down, not anything you said really. </p>
<p>On another note, why aren’t you doing a humanities major?</p>
<p>That’s a good question, and it’s one I ask myself very frequently. It was a tough decision, and I’m still not sure what I even want to do in the far future. I think what it comes down to is that although I love the humanities as a hobby, I don’t think I could do something in that field as a career. I would enjoy it on my own time but not full time, if that makes sense at all. I’m also worried about job security in the humanities fields that interest me most. I guess I can be really indecisive, and I wanted a major that would be a bit more structured to help make things a little more concrete for me. I am trying to fit in a minor in a humanities field (along with my major and another minor; we’ll see how that goes). Anyway, I do really enjoy the techie stuff too although some of it doesn’t come as naturally as say writing would. I try to get a good mix of techie and fuzzy stuff in when I pick my classes.
If I change my mind, I guess I can always go back post-grad, but I wanted something more concrete for undergrad.</p>
<p>A question from a parent: Since these are introductory courses, and many are designed for freshmen who are by definition new to college, why on earth do students have to apply for a spot, much less justify why they should be accepted into these seminars? It’s like trying to get a job, but you have no experience, and no one will hire you without experience. Aren’t any of you tempted to respond “Because my parents are paying an arm and a leg for me to attend this school, that’s why!” Or “Because I know zippo about this subject and want to learn! Isn’t that why I’m here?”</p>
<p>i think it’s somewhat close to the second statement</p>
<p>the intro sems are limited by space so that students can have close relations with the professor. therefore, since many students would want certain classes, the faculty (in most cases) has to choose the students they want in their seminar. they want a diverse group (not just ChemE students for a ChemE intro sem) with varied interests. also, i think they want students who desire to learn more and havn’t learned all of the material yet, but also may have had some spark to their interest. </p>
<p>it just seems like more of a time/space/interest issue than competition</p>
<p>but im not a current student, so i dont really know</p>
<p>@GFG: I agree w/ NJDS. Haha, in any case I think that by the time many students get to Stanford, they are familiar or even comfortable with competitive application processes. Freshman/etc will probably get fine to great instruction in their regular classes, but intro sems are a little treat - a privilege in your introductory coursework, not a right, and so I guess that’s one reason the app process exists. They definitely don’t expect you to have experience when you apply. I think requiring application is more to guarantee a variety of intellectual backgrounds in the class, to offer equal opportunity, and to expose interested students to subjects they may not know much about or ever get to study with amazing professors in a (usually) laid back and engaging setting. For example, requiring an application prevents someone from say taking 10 introsems freshman year - if they see you’ve already taken some they give you less preference.</p>
<p>Anyway I think “Because I know zippo about this subject and want to learn! Isn’t that why I’m here?” is a very valid, common answer on introsem apps. Maybe that plus why you want to learn and what you can bring to the table. Plus, the application process is generally not SUPER competitive, imho. If you really want to take an introsem it seems that eventually you can get the chance.</p>
<p>The really spcial part of introsems is that they are such small, tight knit courses. If there weren’t an application, some of the classes would be quite large - perhaps defeating the purpose.</p>
<p>
Yeah, there are generally open spots for introsems (so you can just walk in the first day and join), but there are open spots because they generally aren’t the desirable ones. If you pick out what you think are the coolest 3 introsems and apply to them, chances are others will too. So if you’re going to do that, then it is super competitive. Like my advisor was in SIS or UAL or whatever and he said Jet Engine and Think Like a Designer got more than 100 apps. So for 15 or so spots it’s pretty competitive. </p>
<p>Even if you think you may be applying to an unpopular one, or you know what to write about, I thoroughly recommend scheduling an online appointment with the HWC to go over what professors generally look for in the essays. </p>
<p>One quick piece of advice I can give is that you should at some point explain why you want to take this class instead of a normal class. Some good answers include small class size, interaction with a renowned professor (say how you specifically will benefit from this, though), field trips, projects, etc. Also make your essay stand out, so that it could only be written by you. </p>
<p>I was dreadful at applying to these freshman year, but I just had a session with the HWC and I feel much more confident this time around. It was really helpful.</p>
<p>Another reason that IntroSems require an brief application is that the faculty are hoping to encourage students to give a good amount of thought to their reasons for selecting a particular IntroSem, rather than having them make hasty choices based on how the titles sound or some other superficial feature. I don’t find anything even remotely objectionable about it, and I appreciate the care the profs will take in assembling a class with diverse viewpoints.</p>
<p>
You know those people who seemingly get into everything? With introsems, sophomore college, and arts intensive, which all have a very similar application process, it is the same way. Some students have a way better success rate with this process because of their strong writing abilities in this one personal essay format. </p>
<p>If introsems were the only thing to do this, I’d be okay with it. But sophomore college and arts intensive too? Basically, three of the most desirable opportunities available for undergrads have the same application format and evaluate the same (limited) set of skills. </p>
<p>Evaluating based on writing ability is a common trend these days. In my parents’ time at university, GPA was king. Not anymore. I think the reason schools switched their focus is that they did not think GPA gave enough people a fair chance. I have a hard time seeing how this is much better. GPA is set in stone, yes, but for a large part so is writing ability for this one subset of personal essay. </p>
<p>Now obviously I’m biased and bitter at how things have turned out regarding this personal essay format. I just don’t think it’s fair. My friend, who does similarly poorly on these applications, does not think it’s fair. We’re in the minority though; most students seem to have no problem with these essays. These students have a hard time empathizing with those of us who do not fare so well. </p>
<p>One of the sophomore college apps asked me to write about a film and how it represented pervasive cultural attitudes at the time. In other words, something different than “why do you want to take this class and what experiences can you bring?” (although it also had to kiss the SIS’s a** and ask that as well). Why can’t more of these classes do something like that?</p>
<p>^I should add that one thing the SIS does to combat this is they give preference to those who didn’t take an introsem previously.
Though good intentioned, it is not the best way to level the playing field in my opinion. </p>
<p>In short, say we are applying in spring quarter. There are two people. One joined an introsem with open-space (aka not as sought-after) fall quarter yet was rejected from all 6 he/she applied to autumn & winter quarters. Another got into his/her first choice autumn and winter quarters. Under the current system, they will be treated equally as someone who has previously enrolled in an introsem. But not only has one taken one more introsem than the other, but received their preferred choice both times. </p>
<p>Anyways long story short I think they should reform their preference system somehow to factor in those people who just took an introsem that had space open versus those that get accepted into their top preferences, or just overhaul the admissions process as a whole.</p>
<p>I apologize for having such a degree of indignation. It’s just this topic really irks me. Not to mention that I’ve had a bad experience with the SIS, in that they wouldn’t tell me how many people were on my waitlist for a sophomore college nor would they tell me what has generally happened in past years regarding students off waitlists. Instead they forced me to wait in the dark the entire summer, which (had I been more optimistic) might have prevented me from making plans for before school.</p>
<p>
I doubt Stanford intended it to be that black and white. Even if it they did, that does not mean that’s the way things should be.</p>
<p>They could definitely make getting into a desirable introsem a right without crippling the system. I believe they should do so. If I ever am motivated enough I will email the SIS with my concerns and potential solutions. </p>
<p>It’s easy to endorse the current framework when one excels at it. It’s also easy to criticize when one does poorly, as I am doing here. But if anything, I’d rather have someone criticize and attempt to improve the system than blindly accept it for what it is.</p>
<p>Wow. So this is my 2 cents to your diatribe on SIS and short personal statements:</p>
<p>I understand that you have a very strong opinion regarding introsems and SIS in general, but this is your experience and your opinion and it doesn’t necessarily represent that of the majority of the relevant student body. I’m not one to say how things “should” be; I’m just expressing my opinion. Yes, gaining the opportunity to participate in introsems and SoCo may not have been as problematic for me as for some others, but that doesn’t diminish my experience. I’m of the opinion that everyone has strengths and weaknesses, and just because a person is disadvantaged in writing personal statements doesn’t mean that they don’t have an equally desirable advantage somewhere else. (Eg: Okay, so on the one hand I admit that I am decent at personal statements. But on the other hand, I need tremendous help visualizing physics problems - some kids find it so easy and breeze thru p-sets but I always needed a good bit of extra help just to stay on par with them). I’m not sure if you’re referring to my description of SIS as “blind acceptance,” but if so, I am sorry that I have not invested my time attempting to find flaws in a system that I’ve had no real reason to in the past. It’s not my battle. There are many things I think Stanford could improve upon, and I focus on the ones that are most important to me.
But yeah, I don’t claim to be an expert; I just express my opinions which I believe are as valid as any. No hard feelings.</p>
<p>The system is probably not completely fair, and it probably “should” be, but what in life is fair?
Anyway, best of luck dealing with SIS in the future.</p>
<p>^I am not criticizing you. I’m sure you don’t take pleasure in my misery. I wasn’t referring to your case as a “blind acceptance,” but a way more general case when people don’t question the current way of things. </p>
<p>
I agree with you. That’s why I said earlier that I am fine with introsems asking for personal statements, although I don’t think it’s fair that they all are basically that way and so are SoCo and AI. Basically these are three of Stanford’s best offerings regarding focused study in a small classroom setting with top faculty members. So, at Stanford, being able to write personal statements is a very important skill to have. </p>
<p>With physics, though you may be poor visualizing problems, you have a variety of other majors to choose from. It’s not like physics was the only option presented to you the way introsems are touted as this “once in a lifetime” thing. You also are probably better than those students in other areas relevant to physics, like applying for jobs down the line. Also, it’s not like there is much your teachers can do to help you (like SIS can by offering a different kind of essay to write). That’s bad luck, and I apologize, but it’s something that can’t really be fixed.</p>
<p>And I hope you notice that my argument is different than one who complains about not being born with “intelligence genes” and thus not getting admission to Stanford. Stanford is a place for top notch academics. Stanford does not just test for one kind of academic performance either; they look at writing ability, testing ability, performance in classroom and extracurriculars, etc. However, I think that being able to write a strong personal statement is not necessary for one to succeed in an introsem nor is it necessary to assemble the best possible students and have the most successful class. It assembles the students who can write the best personal statements- not the brightest, or most interesting, or most passionate ones. Maybe the personal statement is the best way of doing things. If that’s the case, then there is still much room for improvement regarding the preference system. </p>
<p>I don’t want to bring down the people who do really well in these things. Generally, these people will do well regardless of whether or not the preference system is slightly fixed or if different essays are required for some of these. </p>
<p>
None taken. If I were in your position I’d probably say the same things you have said. But in this case I’m not, and I want to stand up for the little guy. I’m sure you have complaints with the school that I have not even thought of. If I posted something that was contrary to those opinions would you voice your concern? I’d be more worried if you did not.</p>
<p>
You’re right. But like I was saying, some things are necessary. Stanford accepting everyone with an IQ of 60 would ruin the purpose of the school. Accepting only the top 8% is necessary to fulfill its academic aims. The way the introsem application process works I believe is not necessary to achieve its aims. If something is not fair and that can be “fixed” without destroying its integrity, I believe that it should be. It seems you think the same way.</p>
<p>
Yes I hope I am making that abundantly clear. It still bears repeating: prospective applicants and incoming freshman! Do not be worried by my bitterness about this one small facet of Stanford University. Most people you’ll meet are not crazy like me and will not go on rants on CC at 4 in the morning. Most people have a good success rate with personal essays, and do not care even if they get rejected from these things. I am just an overly critical communist.</p>
<p>Senior0991, I think you express yourself in writing quite well, and I appreciate it each time you come to these forums to share your experiences and insights. I hope you’ll be assigned to the IntroSem(s) of your choice during your sophomore year. Perhaps the guidance you received from the Hume Center will prove to be the factor that renders your applications successful. : ) Which IntroSems are you hoping to take this coming year?</p>