Irritating Hogwarts/UoC comparison article on admissions site

Smirkus · October 21, 2009, 8:29pm

Here is the link to the article: <a href=“https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/features/hogwarts.shtml[/url]”>https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/features/hogwarts.shtml</a>

This article is hogwash. I’m telling you this from the perspective of a student who goes here. It is articles like these that are pure marketing, and lie about so much in the school. It sets expectations so high for the school, and can just leave accepted students depressed when they get here (I guess that’s what a lot of marketing does).

What annoys me most is the straight up lying in it.

“After all, UChicago’s dining system offers students long wooden tables inscribed with House names at which plots are made for intramural domination”

Bull****! sure there are long wooden tables, but plotting for IM domination?? PLEASE. IM sports are not a huge thing on campus at all. Sure, people participate and it’s fun, but no one talks about it. No one follows them. No one cares all too much about them. They are just another element of student life that *some people participate in. It is definitely fun, but very over exaggerated here.

Here is the most infuriating part of the article:

"our 38 residential houses compete in Midnight Soccer on the Midway Plaisance, a grassy canal that stretches over a mile. On Thursdays at midnight, fans line the Midway, armed with colored scarves and a uniquely Chicago cheer:

Maximize our GNP
Titrate their solution;
Calculate their MPC,
Crush their revolution!"

Bull****! First of all, I play midnight soccer. Not all 38 houses compete. There are never any “fans” at all. Maybe 1-2 people who are friends with players, but can’t play for some reason will come along *maybe. Colored scarves? Who is writing this?? Sure people wear scarves, but the author is making it seem like everyone is sporting this piece of flare. Sure, UoC kids tend to dress a little more quirky as a group than the norm, but people here wear just as many scarves as everyone else in the boring midwest! And that cheer! You are kidding! I have never heard such a thing. Yes, after or before a game there may be a cheer, but that is a cheer for the house team you are playing on, not some corny thing like that! As an aside, yes, cheers like that do exist, and sometimes are heard as a joke.

Let’s continue: “help on their homework from their Resident Master”

Bull****! students are more likely to get help from other students. Never from their RM! There is 1 RM per dorm complex (like 1 RM for the 800 kids in south campus, and the ~800 or so in Max P). These people also have their own academic concentrations. *Maybe you’ll ask them for help if you have a super specific question that you know for a fact they can help you with. Never do people just go up and ask for help, that’s just unrealistic. It’s just as rare to ask your Resident Head for HW help, and they live in your house! Sure these people are available, but one wouldn’t ask them for HW help. Let’s be serious here.

Basically, it makes me sad that this article is so misleading. It shouldn’t be. It is painting a false image of the school.

For the record though, the school was almost picked to film Harry Potter here (I need a source for that, but I think it’s true). It’s pretty nuts in that sense.

idad · October 22, 2009, 1:01pm

The new admissions marketing machine is beginning to hit its stride. Next thing we will hear about is the (fantasized) sound of UofC “Whiffenpoofs” strolling the campus with beaming student faces looking on.

JHS · October 22, 2009, 1:21pm

<ol>
<li>Smirkus, I agree with you and idad that the article is a little over the top (and a little beneath the dignity of the University of Chicago). But, honestly, the stuff that is outraging you is close enough to true to be within the bounds of poetic license. Except the part about fans lining the Midway and doing dorky cheers for midnight soccer. On the whole, the article highlights some of the more collegiate aspects of Chicago, which isn’t such a terrible thing.</li>
<li>As for plotting domination, of intramurals or anything else: You’re sure that doesn’t happen at Snell-Hitchcock? (Pinky and The Brain come to mind.)</li>
<li>I’ve heard some Chicago a capella groups. Nondorf has his work cut out for him if he wants to catch Yale on that front.</li>
</ol>

noimagination · October 22, 2009, 1:23pm

That was the single worst piece of marketing material I have ever seen. It makes the WUSTL brochures look good. For that matter, it makes Shamwows look good.

Cue7 · October 22, 2009, 5:46pm

Welcome to the new Chicago marketing machine. My favorite article on the new college admissions website was the “work hard, play hard” slide on the admissions frontpage. If you’re curious, go here: <a href=“https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/[/url]”>https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/</a> and then click on slide #4.

Since when was Chicago EVER a “work hard, play hard” school??

From friends of mine in the know at Chicago admissions, this process works. Early apps are already up quite a bit (about double what they were last year), and projected numbers for total apps this year is in the 16K range.

What can ya do. It’s all about marketing these days, and generic marketing ploys (work hard, play hard) leads to more apps. I’ve heard the admissions office is still going to cull the wheat from the chaff to get true Chicago students, but the office definitely wants more “chaff” to keep up with the joneses.

idad · October 22, 2009, 6:06pm

It was predicted that the second year of the common application would see a big spike in applicants. Still, marketing still works. Sad to see UChicago going down this path. I’m all for marketing, but am also for truth in advertising. They are clever, as JHS has pointed out. The “play hard” is used in a different context than typical, here it references sports.

neogop · October 22, 2009, 6:08pm

Yes, this article is a tad ridiculous, but I don’t think marketing ploys (especially ones as cheesy as this one) are really what is shooting up the admit numbers. I think it’s prospective ivy-ers looking through USNWR’s rankings and seeing that UChicago is #8 and looking more into UChicago. These articles may wax orwane their interest if and when they visit the admissions website… but overall I think these people (i.e. the ones boosting the admissions numbers) are more interested in the name of the school and not whether they fit the mold. Hopefully these people, who know nothing of Chicago other than that it provides a world class education, will not be admitted in hordes; hopefully Nondorf will continue to allow students admission who show genuine love of the university and a desire to learn, even if they do not have the highest grade in the class (i.e. me haha).

idad · October 22, 2009, 6:13pm

That indeed is the question whose answer we eagerly await, …years from now.

JHS · October 22, 2009, 6:54pm

For a while, maybe for a long time, the new regime can have its cake and eat it, too. Chicago’s reputation for intellectualism and challenging academics isn’t going to vanish just because the marketing materials get dumbed down a little (OK, in this case a lot). Students who knew about Chicago before will still know about it. And they’re still doing the postcards, right? So I suspect 95% of the people who would have applied to the “old” University of Chicago will still apply. (5% will say, “What is this Hogwarts s***?”, not see any difference between Chicago and WUStL or Northwestern except the more threatening neighborhood, and not apply.) Meanwhile, a whole other group of perfectly smart students who think they are more interested in lifestyle WILL apply, because Chicago looks more like WUStL, etc., and some of them won’t be “chaff” at all.

Over time? You can’t have your cake and eat it forever. In college admissions, marketing shapes the classes you get, and so ultimately the institution itself.

A-Punk · October 22, 2009, 7:36pm

Just to provide some anecdotal evidence, I know of at least 5 students at my high school who are applying to Uchicago simply because of the USNWR rank. Their general goal for college admission is to “get into the ivy league, or one of the schools in the top ten.”

At the risk of sounding pretentious, I am an EA applicant who actually knows what UChicago is about, and, I feel, fits the mold perfectly (take my word for it, I don’t want to post my whole essay on here). As such, it is pretty troubling to see Nondorf apply this marketing strategy to appeal to more students; my numbers are not in the 75th percentile, and I fear that I may be rejected, despite my essays, in exchange for a student who is simply enamored by the UChicago rank. I desperately hope that you guys are right, and the admissions office will continue to “cull the wheat from the chaff.”

neogop · October 22, 2009, 7:43pm

Exactly what I’m talking about A-Punk! I feel the same way.
I know that there are about 7 kids in my class applying to UofC from my class (~100). But most of them (4-5) are applying just because it’s a good school. They know that a) UofC offers a wonderful education and b) it’s in Chicago.

motion12345 · October 22, 2009, 8:09pm

I understand the people disappointed by the marketing ploy, but I really don’t understand the people who are mad that some people are applying to the University simply because of the world-class education and faculty that they will receive there. One of the major points of getting a college education, if you didn’t catch it by now, is to receive that and better prepare oneself for not only the business world, but for life itself. I have more things to add, but I want to make sure that I’m understanding exactly what you guys are meaning before I say it, so would you spell out what exactly is wrong with people applying because of the rankings?

noimagination · October 22, 2009, 8:13pm

I’m going to say it again: if a university admits someone, they deserve to go there. Period. Thinking otherwise is a result of unrealistic expectations about the management of the school in question.

ROTCherewego · October 22, 2009, 9:07pm

I don’t get it. Students want to attend the best school they can get into. Why shouldn’t Chicago try to get the best students it can attract? I smell way too much a sense of entitlement that runs like this: I am the quirky student Chicago should be interested in, since they have that reputation. I deserve to get in over students with better stats who are simply looking for the world class education they are famous for.

Some people here seem to think that quirkiness and tippy top stats are somehow incompatible! On whose authority has it been proven?

Time for a reality check. A school like Chicago with world wide reputation for fine education can easily put together an entire freshman class of tippy top students who are also quirky, creative, unusual, and yes, ferociously intellectually driven. They have not lived up to their market potential so far. They are now trying to do just that by casting their net wide (better marketing campaign). More power to them!

If you are shopping for a car, would you buy one with fewer features and lower performance simply because the manufacturer claims that that car is a better fit for you and they had the passion to make that car just for you, and as such they are entitled to have you as a customer?

neogop · October 22, 2009, 9:41pm

This seems to be turning into one of those discussions about where the UofC admissions department is going, considering the departure of Ted O’Neill… and we never end up reaching a conclusion.

But in response to Motion12345 and ROTCherewego:
Being a prospie and looking in from the outside, I see UChicago as a school that has always been about intellectualism. Granted, it has not always been a big promoter of professionalism. I think promoting intellectualism in conjuncture with professionalism is the way to go. The new admissions regime is, I think, taking a step towards professionalism without trying to sacrifice that intellectual curiosity and “Life of the Mind” that exists within the college. However, people mentioned above who pick the UofC purely because of its rank or academic prestige are conducting their college search no better than the 10,000+ applicants who apply to Harvard purely because of the name. EVERYONE wants a good education. No one wants a bad one. So they key in the college admission/decision process is simply, what school is the best fit for you academically, socially, intellectually, artistically, athletically, logistically, etc, etc, etc. So, in essence, these kids who apply for the rank have no idea what the UofC is (or at least was) all about.

I have seen plenty of CC’ers in the “Chance” forum who show their college list similar to this:
Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth, UPenn, Duke, UChicago, WUSTL, JHU, MIT, Stanford

In my opinion (and feel free to disagree) they are conducting their college search in the wrong way. You find the college that FITS YOU. Now, there may be people out there for whom all of those colleges are perfect, but those people are certainly not as populous as the people who have such a college list.

Here is a quote from Ted O’Neill:
“We tell people we’re seeking rigor… what we are really seeking is love.”
So if UChicago is truly trying to admit applicants who fit the school, then it should not be a problem if these kids apply. But, again, with a regime change, your guess is as good as mine. I’m sure quite a few will slip past this year. And more and more as the years go on. But at the core, I think the University is grounded in the faculty… as long as their current philosophy on education continues, I think the University will remain relatively unchanged. And I do agree that if a College accepts you, you probably deserve to go there… and I think this is especially true at the UofC.

A-Punk · October 22, 2009, 10:04pm

You guys are completely right, and I recognize that my original post did have that air of entitlement that ROTCherewego pointed out. This was not my intention. I suspect my post came out like that partly because of the anxiety I am feeling about college admissions, something CC’ers of all ages would be able to empathize with.

U of C has every right to, and in fact should, try to attract the smartest, “tippy top” students from around the globe. My qualm with the people who just apply to UChicago because of the ranking is that UChicago is not exactly like other universities of its caliber. The smartest students have every right to apply there simply because of its ranking, but as ROTCherewego pointed out, it is the smartest AND the creative/intellectually driven/“quirky” (I hate that word…) that belong at UChicago. I would not dare be so conceited as to say I fit the bill in this aspect; that is something for the admissions office to decide (and yes, I agree noimagination: if UofC accepts someone, they deserve to be there). The reason I dislike this marketing ploy is that I fear (perhaps foolishly) that UChicago might compromise the standards for the type of candidates it accepts just to keep on par with its competitors.

Also guys, take what I say with a hefty grain of salt. I really have no statistical evidence to back anything up, so feel free to refute.

neogop · October 22, 2009, 10:11pm

^ Precisely my point
And my fears are augmented by the fact that my grades are above average but not stellar for my school, so I am anxious for my decision and have NO idea what to expect. Some days I feel like I have a shot, some days the opposite. But these kinds marketing ploys kindof hit me personally. Its almost like UChicago saying, “Ok, neogop, you’re good, but we want the creme de la creme. And your GPA doesn’t say that. So even though you love our school and would probably fit in, we’re going to defer you.” I know that’s a gross exaggeration, but that’s my initial jerk reaction.

noimagination · October 22, 2009, 10:11pm

This is the view I was questioning. If what you say is true, you have nothing to fear from additional non-intellectual applicants. If it is false, you probably aren’t losing anything anyway.

Sam_Lee · October 22, 2009, 10:14pm

hmmm…now I wonder if this marketing team is responsible for the sending inflated SAT range to US News. thought it wasn’t intentional but now i am not so sure… ;)

motion12345 · October 22, 2009, 10:49pm

You forget, though, that there is a reason that these institutions have that amount of applications. Their prestige does not emerge from a vacuum and neither did that of the University of Chicago. All of those universities have had their fair share of amazing faculty and students that have earned them that prestige. They want to go there because they want to learn with the best of the best, and they want the best education that they can possibly get. They want to have opportunities to collaborate with some of the best faculty in their intended field, or to prepare them best for graduate school. What is four years of struggle to a lifetime of being able to realize your potential due to the doors opened for you in your undergraduate years (it is true, though, that these universities do not necessarily do that for all fields though)?

Why does it matter that for four years of your life you ‘fit’ into the university you went to if the consequences of going there instead of somewhere else actually worsened your life (aka being less prepared for your field and then quickly falling behind everyone else or lacking the credentials needed to do something you wanted)? Is a kid who, with his personality and intelligence, fits with a community college but decides to go to a semi-decent state school instead making a bad decision? Surely he is not if he can make it through the years at the state school.

Regardless, why do you care so much about “fitting” with the school? Is there some ideal student, some ideal conception of a human being, that every single student that applies is compared to? Surely not, otherwise there would be no ‘diversity’ to be talked about. I would rather hear the conversation between a poet and a physicist as opposed to one between two physicists. I would rather hear the conversation between a more pragmatic person (focuses more on the practical side of things) and a more academically-inclined intellectual as opposed to one between two intellectuals. Just because someone doesn’t ‘fit’ into the ideal student of the university doesn’t necessarily mean that the university is a bad fit for that student nor that the student is a bad fit for the university. Rather, it is a potential opportunity for the university to accept a slightly different applicant because they don’t want good students, such as this one, to be turned off from their university because they don’t feel as though they ‘fit.’

It seems that you’re also making a mistake in that you’re assuming that from the get-go the people applying to those schools aren’t a fit for UChicago. They can not be a ‘fit’ for everywhere else, but be a ‘fit’ for Chicago (I would assume that they are intelligent if they are attempting to apply to all those places, and they may be or will become (perhaps even over time) more of the ‘intellectual’ nature as opposed to more of the ‘practical’ nature.

I must say, though, that I agree with you (finding out that Chicago was in the top 10 in the rankings was just an add-on to my love of it), but was merely attempting to defend the other viewpoint. Hopefully since you seem to love the University of Chicago, you get in and enjoy your time there. I, too, would love to go Chicago but there are probably many more applicants who are so much better than me that basically praying at this point. And regardless, I would need financial aid to go there (which I’m most likely not going to get), but I’m wishing for the best. I, too, wish they would revert back to their old selves so that I would have more of a shot, but hey things don’t always turn out the way we want them to. And also, I apologize for this long post and for not reading over it to make sure there weren’t any errors.

Irritating Hogwarts/UoC comparison article on admissions site

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