Is A Level at a Disadvantage Compared to IB and AP for Ivy League Admissions?

Hi everyone,

I’m a student intending to study A Levels (Grade 9 in the U.S.)and planning to apply to Ivy League schools in the U.S. I’ve heard that A Levels may be at a disadvantage compared to IB and AP because A Levels typically only cover 3-4 subjects, and I’m mainly focused on science courses.

I’m wondering if not taking any humanities courses would negatively impact my application, as I’ve noticed that many U.S. universities have a preference for a broader academic profile, which IB and AP seem to provide. Will this affect my chances of getting admitted to top universities?

Thank you in advance for any insights or advice!

Emily

No.

The suggested academic preparation is just that - a suggestion. And it is not meant to cover ever permutation and combination.

That brings to mind a quote from SpongeBob, “Why, once I met this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy’s cousin…”

Or, from Ferris Bueller’s Day Off;: “My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it’s pretty serious.”

Or, from REO Speedwagon’s “Take It On The Run:” “Heard it from a friend who / Heard it from a friend who / Heard it from another you been messin’ around”

Just because you heard something fourth-hand does not make it true. :rofl:

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Are you considering applying to American University? If not, I can remove that tag for you.

My two cents is I think the mismatch between the UK and US bachelors-level higher education systems, which in turn explains the mismatch between the A-Level and typical US college-prep curriculums (as in, A-Levels are designed to prepare students to attend UK university courses, and the US college-prep system is designed to prepare students to attend US colleges), can in fact be an issue sometimes for A-Level applicants who apply to US colleges.

But it is a surmountable issue, obviously, because some students from A-Level systems do in fact attend US colleges, including the ones in the athletic conference you mentioned, and many other great US colleges.

OK, so I would suggest the more useful question is what does it take to be a strong applicant to US colleges if you go through the A-Level system? Of course really good marks in that system. But then I think you are right that for the sorts of colleges you mentioned, they are also looking for people who understand and value what is called the Liberal Arts and Sciences tradition.

In this tradition, at the undergraduate level you are not just studying some one course, you are going to study a variety of different things outside of what we call your major. And in fact, those sorts of colleges are often on an exploratory model, where you don’t even declare your major for up to two years after you start–very different from the UK system.

So you can be thinking in advance about whether that is something you really want. Like, it takes at least a year longer to get your bachelors-level degree. And you usually can’t just focus on a narrow set of things you know you like and will do well at. And that may not actually be something you want.

And you don’t have to decide now. But if it ends up you DO want it, then over time you can think about how to evidence that interest. Like, if you do just do STEM A-Levels, how can you show through your activities and such that you are in fact interested in non-STEM stuff as well? Reading and writing and arts and so on. Interests in stuff like that don’t have to be limited to a class, so you can think about how to keep all that a part of your life as well.

And this is just the academic part. The sorts of US colleges you are talking about are what are sometimes called residential colleges, and they believe that the non-academic aspects of being at a residential college are integral parts of the learning experience. So, they also want to know you understand and value all that, and are going to contribute in one or more ways yourself. Again, often people address this in part through non-academic activities, but you should also be aware they are interested in you as just a person–are you kind, caring, nice, maybe a leader or a role model for your peers, and so on.

Again, I think some people end up thinking that is really a bunch of nonsense, they can’t quite believe these colleges really care about all that, don’t they just really care about individual achievement, particularly in academics? Nope, I assure you they really do care about all that stuff too.

But if that actually appeals to you, if that is your vision of a great undergraduate experience as well, then you can again just start implementing that in your life–through organized activities, but also informally in how you relate to others–and that will help prepare you for these sorts of US colleges.

OK, that is a lot, but again these are different systems, so it makes sense there would be a lot you need to do to jump tracks to the US system rather than the UK system. But it is all doable, as long as you truly understand and value all that yourself.

And if not–you can stick with the UK system, which of course is excellent in its own way. Or, alternatively, apply to the sorts of US colleges which are less likely to be very picky about all this, as long as you have very good grades and can pay.

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US universities will also look at your GCSEs, iGCSEs, or O’Level results.
You will need to have solid grades (A*-B or 6+) in a variety of Humanities and Social science subjects (typically: English, Foreign Language, History, Geography) in addition to strong grades in your STEM subjects.
However they know you can only take 3 subjects (or 2+Maths+Further Maths or 3+an EPQ) at A levels and won’t penalize you for this. They WILL expect predicted A-A* in all of them though.
Then, as @NiceUnparticularMan said, there’s everything else - what you do in addition to being brilliant matters a lot too.

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Yes, I plan to apply to American universities. TKS

Thank you very much for your reply.

Thank you very much for your message. I’m a girl who excels in STEM subjects, with my main goal being a STEM-focused school or a STEM program at an Ivy League school. I have performed quite well in past math competitions (Top 5% in AMC10 in Year 8 and a perfect score in the SMC). If I can achieve even better results in math competitions, does it mean that what I study in my courses becomes less important by comparison?

Thank you very much for your kind reply. I am a girl and particularly strong in mathematics. If I can achieve outstanding results in math competitions (for example, placing in the top 5% of the AMC12), would the school be less strict with the course requirements?

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No, because in the US 1/4 of your total classes (1/2 -1/3 in the first 2 years, fewer later on) will be outside STEM.
The exceptions are colleges like Amherst, Brown, URochester to a certain extent, which have an “open curriculum” because they look for intellectually curious students who will take whatever strikes their interest outside their main academic interests even if there are no distribution requirements nor a core curriculum. You’d want to stay away from Columbia, UChicago, HarveyMudd which have an especially strong set of non STEM requirements, but MIT is no slouch there either.
So you need strong GCSE/iGCSE scores across the board and you do need scores in English, a language other than English and at least one humanities/social science subject although the expectation would be not one but 2 others (typically History and another subject). Some universities expect an Art (art history, performing arts, visual arts, music…) and some require it (UC and CSUs). They understand the ALevel system doesn’t allow you to do that for A level so you’re fine having Maths/Further Maths and 2 STEM subjects for Level but they want evidence of general education at the Year 11/iGCSE level.

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Thanks so much for getting back to me again. Sorry for asking so many questions! For my IGCSEs, I’ve chosen Math, English, Mandarin, Physics, Global Perspectives, Biology, Business, Chemistry, Geography, and History, but no arts subjects. If I apply to a University of California, could music certificates count instead of an arts subject?

Everyone on CC needs to read this comment!!!

I’m not sure, @Gumbymom do you know?

I can’t speak to the A-level question, but do want to caution you that elite US colleges (like the Ivies) are even more competitive when it comes to admitting international students. It will be very important for you to have good options in your home country in case US schools don’t work out for you (apart from challenging admission, many US schools don’t offer aid to international students so if cost is an issue for your family, you will need to keep that in mind). As a freshman in HS (I assume year 9 is a US freshman equivalent), you have long way to go before college becomes a focus. You are asking the right questions now, which is great.

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Yeah, it is probably worth being realistic about the fact Internationals are typically at a “disadvantage” to US domestic applicants for a variety of reasons. Some colleges may simply only want so many Internationals, with a higher ratio of well-qualified Internationals to slots available than on the domestic side. If you need aid, they may have none for Internationals, or only a limited amount they are very selective in giving out, whereas they might have a much larger budget for domestic aid. And there is the above issue about some Internationals being seen as not really understanding and valuing a US-style undergraduate experience.

And then SOME Internationals may come from systems where US colleges are concerned generally about academic preparation. But not so much A Level students who have done well. They may face all the above issues, but not this one in particular.

So that’s something! And not a small thing.

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Right. I always like to caution international students who are interested in studying at the Ivies since it is so, so competitive. That isn’t to discourage them from applying, but to make sure they are equally invested in finding good matches in their home country (or being open to less competitive US options, if they can afford them).

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@Emily_H

For the UC’s and CSU’s, you need a Art subject course with a letter grade to fulfill the requirement or the following.

AP or IB Examination: Score of 3, 4 or 5 on the AP Art History, Art and Design (2-D Art and Design, 3-D Art and Design or Drawing) Music Theory exam; score of 5, 6 or 7 on any one IB HL exam in Dance, Film, Music, Theatre Arts or Visual Arts

College courses: Grade of C or better in any transferable course of 3 semester (4 quarter) units that clearly falls within one of four visual/performing arts disciplines: dance, drama/theater, music or visual art

The UC’s will review all applicants including applicants that do not meet all the a-g course requirements and understand different HS curriculums have limitations.

The CSU’s are not as flexible and not meeting the requirements will be flagged on the application. It is up to the discretion of each CSU to determine eligibility.

If you have not satisfied the A-G Subject Requirements through your high school coursework units, you may meet these requirements via test results, validation, or waiver.

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Thank you very much for your detailed explanation.

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