are colleges like Washington and Lee or Bucknell a good place for me to study as an undergrad if I’m going to get masters and Ph.D in science? will graduating a liberal arts college put me at a disadvantage for employers or top graduate schools?
Is a liberal arts college a good place for undergraduate studies for those pursuing a science career
Depends on the science subject and whether the specific school has a department in that subject that offers the usual expected courses in that major and electives of your interest. I.e. look into the specific school, not whether it is a liberal arts college or not.
No disadvantage IMO – a liberal arts college should be just fine. I can’t opine on those two schools but just be sure that the facilities are good and take time to look at the course offerings online to be sure the school has everything you want. My D attended another LAC and did research directly with professors which definitely helped her for grad school applications. And FWIW, she has a friend who graduated college with her who is now in a PhD in chemistry program at Columbia. And just as importantly if you want a LAC then chances are you will be happiest and most successful college experience in that environment.
I just wanted to know if the mere fact of graduating a liberal arts college will be a disadvantage for the science majors like physics and other majors like computer science and engineering.
Again, it depends on the specific school and subject. If the liberal arts college is Harvey Mudd College, then you can get a good education in any of the sciences and will be well prepared for PhD study in that science. If the liberal arts college is Sarah Lawrence College, probably not.
Engineering majors are less commonly offered at liberal arts colleges, but some liberal arts colleges do have ABET-accredited engineering majors as native offerings. Some advertise 3+2 programs with universities, but relatively few students actually transfer to the “2” school to complete engineering degrees (note the extra year and extra cost, and uncertainty about admission and financial aid to the “2” school).
Computer science departments and their offerings vary by school. Here is a listing of computer science offerings at various smaller schools including LACs (but check the department web sites since some changes may have occurred): http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19190340/#Comment_19190340
Physics is often a small major. But the core junior/senior level courses are fairly standard, so check that they exist and are offered at reasonable frequency at schools that you are interested in.
intermediate / advanced mechanics
electromagnetism (often two semesters)
quantum mechanics (often two semesters)
statistical and thermal physics
intermediate / advanced lab
intermediate / advanced physics electives
It is not at all a disadvantage to attend an LAC for STEM subjects, especially if you want to go on to get a PhD. What they lose in number of classes vs. a large university, they make up for in amount of personal attention that individual students get. They may have less cutting edge research going on, but the research they do is assisted by undergrads like you, not dominated by grad students.
The top LACs generally send a higher percentage of their graduates on to PhD programs than the top national universities do. In fact, of the top 20 PhD feeder schools, 19 are LACs (and the other one is CalTech, which has 900 students and might as well be called an LAC)
https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/infographics/top-feeders-phd-programs
With that said, not all LACs are the same. Some are better at certain subjects than others. You need to research your particular schools to see if they are good choices.
hey, i actually meant from the perspective of employers and graduate schools, so i was just specifying liberal arts education, but I understand from you that graduating a good liberal arts college like washingon and lee is equivalent to a similarly good research university for emmployers and graduate schools
In no way will going to a LAC for engineering, computer science, physics, or any other major be a disadvantage from the perspective of employers or grad schools. It would be considered the equivalent of graduating from a similar university and could, in some cases (ex. if you do research work, develop close relationships with professors) could turn into an advantage. Go to college in am environment where you will be happy and successful – if that is a LAC for you then go with it and don’t look back.
As others have said- nope, not at all.
The physics curriculum is pretty standardized across US colleges and universities- any top 100 school will do just fine. The biggest “disadvantage” of a smaller school / LAC is that students at larger universities may have taken more upper level classes than you can; one of the “benefits” is that in many cases you can start being involved with hands on research earlier, as there are no grad students competing for the work. Start applying for summer research positions by January of your first year- and note that many LACs offer paid summer research work. Grad schools will want your GREs, grades, research experience & recs.
And it doesn’t even have to be a super-top / famous for science LAC. We have first hand evidence of that in our household!
Sort of. Good LACs open the same doors for graduate schools and professional schools. For employers its a little different. Employers don’t have the time to visit lots of little schools, and many employers have no idea what schools are good - but they always recognize their local state universities. If I wanted to study, say, accounting or pharmacy, and go right into the workforce, I’d go to my state flagship. If I wanted to get a PhD someday, I would favor a good LAC.
From what I know Washington & Lee tends to produce a lot of business majors. I have no idea what their science programs are like or if they get a lot of students into PhD programs. However, some LACs like Carleton, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Pomona, Reed, Grinnell and Haverford feed a big percentage of their classes into the PhD track at the best graduate schools, year after year after year.
I honestly have never in decades of hiring heard a hiring manager say “I’m not going to hire that person because they went to a small LAC”. Maybe it matters to some employers, but I’ve been in IT for 30 years and have never heard that. I went to a small LAC not known outside of the region, then moved to a part of the country where NOONE had ever heard of my college. Doesn’t seem to have held my career back.
When I do hear hiring managers mention colleges, it’s usually either a preference for hiring NC State grads (since I’m in Raleigh), or has to do with sports rivalries. What does make a difference is if you’ve had opportunity to do internships or work in a related job while in college.
For engineering it does matter if the degree program is ABET-accredited, and I’ve seen some employers ask about ACS accreditation for chemistry degrees.
At some schools, the physics department is so small (due to the major’s unpopularity) that it does not offer all of the core junior/senior courses often enough (once every two years at the minimum, every year or every semester is more desirable). A prospective physics major should make sure that the schools of interest offer the needed physics courses often enough.
Note that this problem is not unique to LACs – it can occur at any school where the desired major and associated department is too small. In other words, look carefully at the school itself, not whether or not it is a LAC.
ucbalumnus, what about washington and lee when it comes to physics and computer science? is the department so small? i don’t even know what are all the core and necessary courses.
those are course offerings in w&l
https://www.wlu.edu/physics-and-engineering-department/about-the-department/physics-courses
Regarding PhD programs in the sciences, note that, for many professions, their pursuit would often be superfluous. For this reason, I would not evaluate an undergraduate institution based on the percentage of its graduates who go on to earn this degree.
@merc81 with stem subjects like engineering or computer science, I agree. With traditional academic subjects like physics or chemistry or biology, I disagree.
W&L seems to have the bare minimum junior/senior physics offerings (with some applied engineering-type offerings as the electives), so it is probably just adequate for pre-PhD preparation. You may want to compare the catalogs and schedules of other schools.
Never mind.
For physics, the AIP publishes reports such as the “Roster of Physics Departments with Enrollment and Degree Data.” That report gives the number of physics majors and degrees by school. Useful data points to be aware of.
Link: https://www.aip.org/statistics/undergraduate