<p><a href=“%5Burl=%0Ahttp://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060243741-post171.html%5D#171%5B/url%5D”>quote</a> …Okay. The Cornellian boosterism will stop… </p>
<p>([#179](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060244843-post179.html]#179[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060244843-post179.html)</a>) …Okay. I’ll stop now…
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<p>You had me at hello! :)</p>
<p>Cornell Band = Red Army Band of the U.S.S.R! Goosesteppers!!!</p>
<p>“Oh here we are, the Princeton Band, singing SONGS OF OLD NASSAU…that old refrain will sound again, and you will hear the TIGER ROAR!” (music continues while PUB leaves a cloud of dust on the Big Red Marching Band)</p>
<p>Princeton’s for the pretty boys,
Drunkards go to Penn,
But far above Cayuga,
There’s a race of hairy men.</p>
<p>“Far above Cayuga’s Waters
What’s that awful smell
Some will say that it’s the lake
But no – it’s just Cornell.”</p>
<p>Nah. Just the Ag School. We know how to raise pigs and talk good. Enjoy your pork.</p>
<p>We enjoyed the failure of Big Red Lax more than any delicious white meat.</p>
<p>P.S. Cornell is still a vassal university under Princeton suzerainty according to the events of GoCrossCampus</p>
<p>Honestly, I wasn’t surprised, nor were most people who follow the team closely. It’s a three way race this year between the Brunos, the Tigresses, and the Red.</p>
<p>And I’ll take one loss to Princeton over the last five years, but as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I am really worried about the effects of the HYP financial aid policies on Ivy parity.</p>
<p>Oh Cayuga, you can’t possibly be having any fun with your cross-Ivy rivalries. They aren’t nationally relevant! ;-)</p>
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<p>Yeah, Me too :(</p>
<p>pizzagirl,
Part of the rationale behind my comments is to illuminate differences in the undergraduate experience on various campuses. I see much greater equivalence in the academic comparisons than I do in the non-academic comparisons. Thus, for students comparing colleges of similar academic strength, I believe that they should be investigating points of distinction. What are some of the non-academic differentiators of the undergraduate experience at ABC College vs. XYZ University?</p>
<p>My view is that all of the colleges that we have been discussing have great academic offerings and that a student’s academic interests can likely be met by all of these colleges. So, what individual factors will help a student choose between ABC and XYZ? There are obvious factors like location, campus attractiveness, weather and size. There are somewhat more difficult differences to sort out like social life or interaction of the students with non-university facilities, eg, local arts. There are also considerations of the athletic life which, for some students, can be a big consideration and an important facet of their undergraduate life and their lives as alumni. </p>
<p>I am very confident in my claim, here and elsewhere, that athletic life at Stanford, Duke, Vanderbilt and Notre Dame is quite different from that at Cornell. I am much less sure about Rice. For Northwestern, I appreciate your comments and would agree that it is far from a sports-obsessed campus. You seem to think Northwestern’s athletic life is roughly the same as Cornell. I would disagree, but perhaps yours is the more accurate view. I"d be interested to read the views of others familiar with the university in making this comparison with Cornell.</p>
<p>Who cares if cross-Ivy rivalries are * nationally relevant *. What makes them so special is that hardly anybody cares except you! Don’t you love the blank stares and rolling eyes of America when you disparage the Quaker in front of the clerk at the Walgreens or the old lady on the subway? I DO. Huzzah! Tiger! Sis boom ahhhhhh.</p>
<p>But Tokyorevelation, how are you going to hold your head high in a bar 15 years from now! LOL.</p>
<p>Hawkette, I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with you that non-academic considerations are important (and indeed, at the top-20 or so level, the academics are all so similar that it really comes down to personal preference and perceived fit, not arguments about whether #8 is better than #10).</p>
<p>Here’s what I take issue with. Let’s just talk about the Ivies and pretend that we have a lucky student who’s been accepted to all 8, just for the sake of argument. You’re counseling the student and you say:
If you are interested in living smack dab in the middle of a major American city, H, Col and Penn are better choices.
If you are interested in living in a urban environment but not a major city, Y and Br are better choices.
If you are interested in living in a smaller town / more rural area, Dart, Cornell and Pr are better choices. (We could quibble on Pr access to NY / Phil, but just accept this assessment for argument’s sake.)</p>
<p>Right? So far so good.
But what’s NOT appropriate is to say “H/Col/Penn provide a superior undergraduate experience because they are in major cities.” Or “Those students who think they want a rural area just don’t know any better; if they went to a city and experienced it, they couldn’t help but enjoy the offerings of a city, if they only knew.” Or, “The fun of taking advantage of the offerings of a large city just can’t be matched by anything else.”</p>
<p>I get that big-time spectator sports are important to YOU and that YOU would pick Stanford, Duke, etc. over the Ivies. That’s great. What I take issue with is that people who don’t like big time spectator sports don’t know what they’re missing, couldn’t help but like them if they only were exposed to them (which you have said repeatedly on several threads), and that these things provide things that bond students to their campuses more so than other aspects of a college campus.</p>
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To which the Quaker replies: Puck Frinceton. :p</p>
<p>YOU JERKS NOBODY NOTICED MY 1000th post! AGH. I hate you all. The only reason I am posting so much here was to get past that mark. All of you fail me.</p>
<p>@45%'er </p>
<p>I like my oatmeal on the thin side thank you very much. You go take care of that now.</p>
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Tigers and Bears…oh my! :P</p>
<p>I love you, Pizzagirl.</p>
<p>I can’t believe how difficult it has been conveying that simple concept.</p>
<p>pizzagirl,
Your example assumes that people know the difference in the nature of the athletic life at these various colleges. I don’t make that assumption. Sure, some do, but I think many don’t. Let me give you a real example that I have shared elsewhere. The example involves Cornell and Vanderbilt, but it could well involve any of the Ivies and any of the Stanford, Duke et al group. </p>
<p>Last fall I had dinner with a couple from NYC who had both grown up in the Northeast, gone to Cornell and loved it and are now happily ensconced in the city and he is a big hitter on Wall Street. Son attended one of the top NE prep schools and was all eager and good to apply ED to Cornell, but someone at his school suggested he first visit Vanderbilt. He did so and fell in love with the place, applied there ED, was accepted, and is now a deliriously happy Vandy student. </p>
<p>Story got more interesting for me when I heard the parents talk about their experience of attending a Vanderbilt football game. Stadium was full, game was exciting, SEC opponent (Georgia?). They loved it, particularly the tailgates outside the stadium and all the fun going on in many parts of the campus, before and after the game (and son, mom and dad were smack dab in the middle of it). They said that they had never seen anything like that at Cornell and that they finally understood and appreciated what all the hoopla was about regarding “fun” colleges with great athletic scenes and how that impacts the undergraduate experience.</p>
<p>The point is that even highly educated folks often don’t “get” the whole athletic life thing until they have seen if first-hand. This does not automatically mean that once someone encounters it, he/she will immediately and fully accept it as superior. But for some, it is a new experience and can be a real and attractive difference in the nature of the undergraduate experience.</p>
<p>Same could be said for anything at any college campus. Any new experience could be a real and attractive difference in the nature of the undergraduate experience. Whether it’s swimming in the gorges at Cornell, or cheering on the Duke b-ball team, or painting The Rock at Northwestern, or … (insert whatever tradition of choice at whatever school).</p>
<p>Yes, that’s it. What is unique about each school. A Vandy student who can go to the SEC football game won’t have the opportunity to swim in Cornell’s gorges or paint The Rock at Northwestern. It is such activities that you remember as an alumnus and which differentiate your experience from what was available elsewhere. </p>
<p>Also, I’m not saying that one activity is better than another, but I am saying that when measuring similar things (eg, athletic life), there are differences between these colleges.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone has stated that because of such and such factor/s a school is in some measures better than another to the generic person. No.</p>
<p>What is said – was said – will be said until such said material is understood is that to the person who … <em>Drum Roll</em> CARES, like the people in this thread who’ve been debating the athletic scenes at different schools, certain factors make undergraduate institutions a better fit for others. Others who want specific things to be incorporated into their undergrad education. Like Sports. Like Art. Like jumping rope on hot saturday mornings with the townies.</p>
<p>Anyways, this factor is sports, and to those who want it – it oftentimes makes Duke a better school than WashU or Uchicago. It oftentimes makes Stanford a better school than Harvard. </p>
<p>That’s the point being made.</p>