Is Cornell Secretly the Best Ivy?

Colleges & Universities Cornell University
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<p>engineerbill,</p>

<p>I have never, in my life, seen someone so obsessed with rankings and numbers. I look through some of your posts - in almost EVERY post on this website, you’ve quoted percentages, rankings, etc, usually from USNEWS. I’m not taking a stance on the argument in this thread, I just want to chime in and say that I think you need to chill man. Not only that, but like 70% of your posts are in this thread. Obsessed much? </p>

<p>If you hate Cornell so much, stop going on the Cornell boards. I will never understand why people who dislike Cornell for some reason spend so much time on the Cornell boards telling everyone how much they dislike Cornell. It’s really weird, and sort of pathetic. Get your nose out of the USNEWS College Rankings Guide book and go outside for some fresh air.</p>

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<p>Yep, engineerbill is a pretty shallow, narrow minded, and stubborn ■■■■■ that likes to inflate flaw that cornell, real or imaginary. </p>

<p>Obviously, engineerbill wants to insult cornell in every way possible so he only calls upon USWNR and ignore pretty much all other reputable ranking sources take these for example from first page of googling ivy league rankings ( [Ivy</a> League Colleges & Universities | World Ranking Guide](<a href=“http://worldranking.blogspot.com/2010/04/ivy-league-colleges-universities.html]Ivy”>Ivy League Colleges & Universities | World Ranking Guide) , [List</a> of Ivy League Schools | Ivy League University Ranking | American Universities and Colleges Rankings](<a href=“http://www.plant-biology.com/Ivy-League-university-Rankings.php]List”>http://www.plant-biology.com/Ivy-League-university-Rankings.php) ). He doesn’t care about rankings, he only cares about the ranking sites that make cornell look bad (disregarding how brown is always trashed everywhere). Sometimes the rankings he post up have nothing to do with his argument either (using NRC rankings of graduate schools in an undergrad - related discussion instead of pulling undergrad rankings). Either he got picked on by cornell students since he was 5, feels angry about it, and wants to vent it on a thread like this or he just got flat out rejected and found a particularly immature way of handling frustration. Remember, ivy doesn’t mean squat, it’s just a football league. Also, he likes starting posts with “ha!” to sound like a big jerk, make people pay attention to him, and keep ■■■■■■■■ on in this thread.</p>

<p>So this is what we must do: ignore his posts, since he has long run out of potentially valuable contributions in this thread and it is pretty obvious that he will not stop his flaming any time soon.</p>

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<p>Here is my take on Engineerbill:</p>

<p>The reason he takes so much time on this Cornell sub-forum has to do with the fact that Cornell’s engineering program has ranked ahead of Princeton in the USNWR rankings for many years. This really bothers him, because Princeton – his alma mater – is supposed to be superior in every way to Cornell (in his world view). Engineerbill used to post under the name of “JohnAdams12.” A quick review of some of his posts under that name makes it clear that Engineerbill and JohnAdams12 are the same person. Engineerbill also claims to have gone to graduate school at Stanford. So, having gone to those two schools, coupled with having the burden of his elitist personality, he attempts to “beat up” on certain other schools that he deems sub-par. Another one of his favorite punching bags is Duke.</p>

<p>It is my view that based on the dismissiveness and contemptuousness found in many of his posts, and his oft-used petty, tyrannical, and deceptive techniques, that he has pretensions to being elite, but that he is unfortunately terribly elitist.</p>

<p>There is an old saying at Cornell that is descriptive of the majority of its students and alumni:</p>

<p>“Elite, not elitist.”</p>

<p>To be elite, in this context, is to be unusually intelligent, creative, and productive – but not to lord it over others, and not to falsely vilify one’s peers.</p>

<p>To be elitist, here, is a person who believes that their “superiority” entitles them to guilefully attack, denigrate, and malign those who might question their “authority” and perceived preeminence.</p>

<p>In my opinion, Engineerbill, also known on CC as JohnAdams12, is an elitist.</p>

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<p>To answer the OP’s original question,</p>

<p>“why, yes it is!”</p>

<p>spoken by a true Cornellian</p>

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<p>^^^^^ Please refer to post #342, because that is my last address regarding “Engineerbill” in this thread.</p>

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<p>Yeah okay cornell is at the “bottom” of USNWR this year, meaning 15th. Brown and all other colleges ranked under cornell in USNWR are not actually colleges, but secret cartel strongholds.
the only place that cornell comes out at the “bottom” is USNWR, where it is head to head with brown. Last year, cornell was at number 12. Rankings change every year. It doesn’t mean bullcrap.<br>
If you rely on rankings so much, why not click on the links i showed you multiple times when i told you i searched plain and simple, ivy league rankings?
you also like commenting on the idea that cornell grad programs suck, posting that huge list of NRC rankings back there. So both grad and sucks that much, since obviously cornell is the worst college in the world, how is it still so highly ranked across so many reputable ranking sources? Mind you, pretty much the only reputable source that ranks cornell at the “bottom” (along with brown) is USNWR, your holy grail. So say if cornell comes out several places higher next year and some other ranking source trashes cornell, will USNWR be completely trash to you then? Cornell was ranked like #5 or 6 or something back in USNWR several years ago, if you must know. Just goes to show you how much rankings fluctuate. Rely on ones like the one offered by wikipedia, which is much less fickle and ranks colleges/universities in the entire world if you must. [Academic</a> Ranking of World Universities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Ranking_of_World_Universities]Academic”>Academic Ranking of World Universities - Wikipedia)
[Ivy</a> League Colleges & Universities | World Ranking Guide](<a href=“http://worldranking.blogspot.com/2010/04/ivy-league-colleges-universities.html]Ivy”>Ivy League Colleges & Universities | World Ranking Guide) , [List</a> of Ivy League Schools | Ivy League University Ranking | American Universities and Colleges Rankings](<a href=“http://www.plant-biology.com/Ivy-League-university-Rankings.php]List”>http://www.plant-biology.com/Ivy-League-university-Rankings.php)
[Ivy</a> League Universities / Schools Ranking | U.S. College Rankings](<a href=“http://www.uscollegeranking.org/ivy-league/ivy-league-universities-schools-ranking.html]Ivy”>http://www.uscollegeranking.org/ivy-league/ivy-league-universities-schools-ranking.html)</p>

<p>all these links i found in the first google result page on “ivy league rankings”
I don’t think being consistently at the middle of the non-HYP ivies equates to being at the bottom? Please open your eyes engineerbill, and your mind too.</p>

<p>remember, i never argued that cornell is at the very top of the ivy ladder. Only willhemakeit did, and there is just as good of a reason to argue his point as there is to argue yours. You two are at the two extremes, and your arguments are foolish and ridiculous.</p>

<p>this is my last post as well regarding this character. I promise :slight_smile: as long as nobody else besides engineerbill attempts to make the situation even worse than it is now (knowing his character, he surely will). I suggest everyone else follow suit. This thread had more than enough engineerbill for a lifetime.</p>

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<p>lol I kind of find the whole thing funny.</p>

<p>engineerbill - I never said “because Cornell is on the bottom of the data, let’s not use it” - I honestly don’t care. Use all the data you want! It’s a free country, right? I’m simply saying the fact that you study the Cornell (and other schools) common data set is kind of weird. You didn’t even go here. Why are you so obsessed with it? Why do you spend so much time on the Cornell board fighting with people to prove that Cornell is a horrible school? </p>

<p>My school is ranked 15th in the country - out of thousands of other colleges. 15th is 15th. That doesn’t change because Cornell is an Ivy-League. There is no invisible higher standard that states 15th place is horrible if that institution is Ivy League. I’m very happy to go to the 15th ranked school in the country (according to US News anyway). It still puts me in the top 5% or so. So yay :)</p>

<p>This stuff of “Cornell is ranked 15th it sucks!” Is reaaaaaly old. By that logic, every school ranked 15th or below isn’t worth going to. Would people really argue that Brown, Rice, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, UC Berkley, etc are horrible schools?</p>

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<p>See post #342 for to see an answer to your question.</p>

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<p>How about we report all the problem posts in this thread (including the starter since it can actually be quite offensive) and toss it into the garbage can where it belongs? I’m sure this qualifies for a problem post. If not, i don’t know what does.</p>

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<p>@ engineerbill post #337</p>

<p>I first introduced you to the concept of ‘Focus on subsystems’ You almost got it but didn’t quite. Now, I introduce you to another concept ‘boundary condition’. Hope you know what I am talking about. Means you have to define your problem clearly. That would be the universe you would be interested in and working with. So, my boundary conditions if ranking were important to me would be Ivy, Engineering, and undergraduate. Your USNWR god doling out the ranking seems to indicate that within those boundary conditions Cornell is #1. I can refine it further and add Biological Engineering. Again Cornell takes the top spot.</p>

<p>Speaking of wining and dining. I have very good friend who has a top admin post at a well known mid western University. Had him home for dinner a few times as well. Once conversation went into rankings and specifically USNWR. That is when I first heard about wining and dining to manipulate rankings. Some are better than others.</p>

<p>NRC they themselves have established that they screwed up. Lost credibility. In any way, does not apply to undergraduate study. Faculty Quality I addressed in a previous post.</p>

<p>PS: I am not sure what kind of engineer you are but you sure don’t know how to apply engineering principles to simple systems.</p>

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<p>@DarkIce,</p>

<p>Yes, I fully agree. The whole thing ranking thing is absurd as saying Steve Jobs is worth only $6billion and ranks #15 on Forbes List. Oh that poor, underachieving guy.</p>

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<p>

Actually, engineerbill, I soundly proved your stance wrong last night by simply listing all of the departments at each of the Ivies. Cornell has more deparments (more akin to a state school breadth).</p>

<p>No one could also argue that Cornell’s programs are regularly considered to be among the best in their fields - not necessarily above Harvard, Yale, or Dartmouth in every head-to-head match up, but considered an overall top-notch education.</p>

<p>Taking one or the other, your argument stands. Taking both breadth and quality into account, your argument fails to deliver and is soundly refuted. Complex systems thinking of this nature ( :slight_smile: ) isn’t everybody’s strong suit, but you should at least be starting to recognize that there are multiple metrics for measuring quality - one of which is access to diverse knowledge at a high quality.</p>

<p>I’m sorry if you assumed your school to be inherently superior in every way, but at some point perhaps you will realize that elitism isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.</p>

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<p>@engineerbill,</p>

<p>You don’t seem to understand any engineering principles that I explained. In fact, you glaze over it. Either you are not an engineer or are a -6sigma from mean. Your profile shows you are 51. Looks like you have a hard time applying engineering concepts to simple data. Time for Aricept, I guess. I had to use the analogy to show you your absurdity.</p>

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<p>@engineerbill,
For me, Yes to post #359.</p>

<p>Apply boundary conditions. What kind of an engineer are you? You base your decision on the data that is of importance to you. According to your USNWR gods which I don’t care, Cornell is # 1 Ivy for my needs i.e. Engineering specifically Biological Engineering. Now, it may or may not be for Ancient Greek which I haven’t looked and nor do I care.</p>

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<p>Where did this “HIGH CALIBER” major concept enter into the equation? What defines a high caliber versus low caliber major? Who makes that judgment? </p>

<p>You’ve been soundly defeated and are now trying to shift the argument. We Cornellians are too smart for your used car salesman tricks. I pray that you are not really 51. I pray you are in high school. That is the only explanation for this continued obsession with the minutae of ranking. </p>

<p>“One might tend to agree”? You sound more like a politician who can’t accept defeat than an engineer. Yes. Cornell offers more majors. One has to agree. It’s a simple mathematic equation rooted in the tradition of arithmatic. Cornell also provides a high quality education in those majors, whether your Lordship deems them to be “high caliber” or whether they’re ranked 1 or 30 or whatever line and assessment model you want to use as the cut off for “high quality”.</p>

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<p>@engineerbill,</p>

<p>Post 363</p>

<p>Now we are getting somewhere. And thats all I care. What I important for my needs. If I were interested in Genetics and Mario Capechhi says I will be your mentor, I would screw Harvard and go to University of Utah. BTW, if you don’t know Mario is a Nobel Prize winner in Medicine and possibly one of the best brains in Genetics. Professor at University of Utah. Mario had a very interesting upbringing. Concentration camp as a kid, Father gassed, mother escaped, was a street urchin for the first six years of his life, reunited with mother, brought to US by mother’s brother, was a construction worker after high school, on a whim went to college at Antioch College in southern Ohio and now a Nobel laureate. Another movie possibility like John Nash and A Beautiful Mind.</p>

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</p>

<p>Applejack, there is another explanation. Please read post #342. It is my belief that the crux of why a certain poster is so obsessed is answered, to a large degree, in that post.</p>

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<p>Here is what I think who Engineerbill might be?</p>

<ol>
<li>Not an Engineer or a very poor quality one. Does not know/respond to engineering discussions. Probably does not have a clue what I am alluding to.</li>
<li>Probably a sales guy peddling USNWR or such rags</li>
<li>If 51, needs strong cocktail of medication including Aricept and Prozac.</li>
<li>Don’t know how to use or interpret data. Again a sign of low quality engineering skills.</li>
<li>Posts all over the place on the board Rutgers, U of MN, Rice in addition to this contributing to value deficit.</li>
</ol>

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<p>FYI - Cornell isn’t technically last place according to US News. It is tied with Brown.</p>

<p>:)</p>

<p>There is no argument here though. Is Cornell the best Ivy? The answer is: it depends on the ranking system you choose to use. To US News, nope, Cornell and Brown are tied for last place (among Ivy League schools), and there is no arguing that. Willhemakeit and engineerbob are arguing two different points here:</p>

<p>Willhemakeit: Is Cornell the best Ivy, if defining “best” as “school with the most departments”. Then yes, Willhemake it is correct in saying Cornell is the best.</p>

<p>engineerbob: Is Cornell the best Ivy, if defining “best” as “US News highest ranking for an Ivy League School.” No, Cornell is not the best Ivy, according to that ranking.</p>

<p>DarkIce: Is Cornell the best Ivy, if defining “best” as “the school that best fits me, provides an excellent education, has high brand recognition and prestige, and offers generous financial aid.” Then, by my definition, yes Cornell is the best Ivy.</p>

<p>See? We can’t agree because we all have different ideas of the word “best.” It’s so pointless to argue.</p>

<p>And lastly, engineerbob, I said it’s weird that you study the data set not because you shouldn’t use it to back up facts, that’s actually a very legitimate reason to do so. My point is that it’s weird that you NEED to look them up. That you feel you NEED to prove people wrong just to make yourself, for some reason, feel superior. I’ve always found that the people who fight the hardest online are the biggest f***** tools…</p>

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<p>I’m really growing concerned about your comprehension. You made this identical argument last night - same schools even - and I explained why it is wrong. </p>

<p>The difference between Cornell and the schools you list is the quality of education. I’ve seriously explained this to you multiple times. Why aren’t you grasping this simple concept?</p>

<p>Breadth of programs + quality of programs = Cornell’s unique value</p>

<p>You keep focusing on one - breadth - or the other - quality - and ignore the core argument I’m making becaue you know i’m right. I’m not saying it’s intrinsically better or worse than any other school. I don’t think that’s possible to measure, but your efforts to make the same, tired and debunked arguments over and over for the sole purpose of degrading Cornell does not reflect well on whatever school you went to that you deem superior.</p>