<p>I know this topic might have been discussed in past. I though to get a fresh discussion on this topic.</p>
<p>One can go to instate public school with almost ZERO debt.
Or she can go to Duke or other high rated school with almost us$ 100,000 in loan. Is duke education worth the money? Do you duke education had good ROI?</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>In general the answer is probably no, especially if the other school is a State flagship type university which generally have very good programs as well as honors colleges imbedded inside the university. This is my opinion of course.</p>
<p>As much as I love Duke, I wouldn’t have come here if doing so meant I would be $100,000 in debt. Do I think Duke is worth the money if you have it to spend? Yes. Is it worth decades of debt repayment and compromised choices? No.</p>
<ul>
<li> I suspect a little CC research (Duke and other first tier institution) will provide a plethora of opinions.</li>
<li> It also should be remembered that approximately 44 percent of Duke undergraduates receive financial assistance, frequently considerable.</li>
<li> I will add only one fact, since it is often overlooked: undergraduates are understandably stunned at the potential debt, but one will work for four or five decades. Accordingly, an equally relevant consideration is how a Duke (etc.) degree will positively influence my life – and my earnings – over the LONG years in the future.</li>
</ul>
<p>My DS is at Duke without financial aid. I attended an equivalent undergrad and HBS. IMO, for those who have the opportunity, there is no investment with greater leverage than an education at a top 10 US university or LAC. There is no substitute for the stimulation and growth that comes from interacting with the very best students and professors, from learning to think in the most challenging environments, and in having the confidence that comes from knowing how your abilities compare and fit with those of the very best in the world. The friendships you develop with other future leaders are an added bonus. The real payoff doesn’t come in the first few years out of school, but later when the training, work ethic, confidence and, in some cases, connections lead to the highest echelons of whatever profession you choose. If your objective is to be a pre-eminent change agent that meaningfully helps leave the world a better place than you found it attending top university or LAC is the best place to start. </p>
<p>That said, here is no question that cream rises and if you are qualified to attend Duke you will have a successful life regardless of where you go to college. However, an elite education can provide the fortunate beneficiary the opportunity to accomplish far more far faster. In the long run the price differential should be inconsequential relative to the improvement in your overall well-being which will generally reflect an enhanced ability to contribute to the betterment of the global community as well as intellectual, financial, social and potentially other benefits.</p>
<p>Kudos, am, on an eloquent, insightful, and exceptionally valuable post.</p>
<p>am61517: You make good points. But will your DS be $100,000 in debt at the end of his time at Duke?</p>
<p>Nobody should be anywhere close to $100k in debt to attend Duke. Loans are capped at something like $5.5k/year. I realize it’s possible one could take out additional private loans, but if that much is required, then either Duke made a major mistake with its fin aid calculations or a student has parents that simply aren’t willing to spend as much they could. If you have wealthy parents that are unwilling to contribute significantly towards your education and thus you have to take out considerable loans personally, I would say it’s not worth it, but that situation has to be fairly unusual. Now if the question is simply is Duke worth $100k more than some other school, that is certainly a personal decision and up for debate. But NOBODY should have anywhere close to $100k in debt after attending Duke undergrad.</p>
<p>Are you sure about the $100k in debt figure? Duke gives pretty good financial aid and while there’s often a loan component it’s capped for certain interest groups. Unless you make well over $150,000, she won’t have that much in loans.</p>
<p>Please forgive my directness. By focusing on the value of $100,000 of debt you are losing sight of the forest by getting lost in the trees. The value of an elite education is PRICELESS. </p>
<p>State Flagships serve a very important purpose. That said, given the size and scope of their mission, they can not effectively shape and stimulate the brightest thirstiest minds the way universities and LACs with a more tightly focused mission can. </p>
<p>There is a very substantial difference at the end of 4 years in the thinking process and outlook of a precious young soul that has had the discernment to take full advantage of what a Duke has to offer. </p>
<p>It is disconcerting to see so many getting sidetracked by what is in reality a small sum of money. Please don’t get me wrong. I grew up middle class, worked my way through college and had a substantial debt load at the end of undergraduate. I have also reaped untold benefits throughout my career that would never have been available if I hadn’t attended a top 3 LAC. I had many equally bright and talented friends attend the State Flagships. All have done well, but none went on to careers that were remotely as interesting as mine or those of my classmates. </p>
<p>It is not politically correct to say it, but the choice is between having limited or unlimited prospects. How do you put a price on that if you only have one life to live?</p>
<p>You don’t. But Fannie Mae sure as hell will. And not everyone wants to go into a high income profession. For those folks, the investment value of an “elite” education is lower than it is to you, and the additional consumption utility may not be worth it. Didn’t your elite education teach you that the values and preferences of others may differ from yours?</p>
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<p>I’m sorry, but I don’t believe this is true at all. In my own ‘middle-class’ background and in the context of my own family experience, $100k is not in any way a “small” sum of money. At a 5% interest rate (I’m not sure what the interest rate is on Perkins loans these days, but I know there’s no way that $100k could be borrowed on subsidized loans again), you’re paying $660/month for 20 years.</p>
<p>Yes, that might be a “small” sum of money, but $7,920 is a significant chunk of money for a young professional each year. By taking on that debt, a student might be gaining untold tangibles-- but zie is also limiting choices about buying a car or a house, where to live, what kind of vacations to take-- hir quality of life-- for two decades, to a pretty high degree.</p>
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How are you judging interesting? By a lack of sufficiently ‘smart’ people in the field? A lack of “interesting” job descriptions? A higher salary? </p>
<p>I am loving my Duke experience. But when people say that a Duke experience is “priceless,” I don’t know what that means. I could not have taken on $100k in loans, because those life choices just aren’t mine to make? They’re also my parents’, who’d have to cosign my loans and whose credit would likewise be affected. They’re also my sister’s, who has to go to school after I do. Taking on more debt than my parents make in a given year (whose yearly repayment would be more than my health insurance payments, more than the cost of after-school care for my own kids, more than the amount my mother currently saves for retirement each year) would not be a “small” amount of money.</p>
<p>With all due respect, people who talk about a Duke experience being priceless ae often those who come from families that could support you if you missed a loan payment or two. They tend to have strong financial support networks in place that could let you live at home or through a friend of a friend in the first two years of professional life-- because you can’t move out because you can’t afford to because of student loan payments. They assume that, in fact, everybody has that capability, and in the works of a current Duke student talking about this issue on social media this year, “money is just paper.”</p>
<p>But that’s not the reality I live in. Like I said, I love my Duke experience. I have so many opportunities today that I wouldn’t have otherwise. But as somebody who wants to go into non-profit and public service work, I can’t afford to not think about money and to think about how “priceless” a Duke education is. As somebody whose parents are close to retirement and still have a younger sister whose college to pay for, I can’t afford to affect my parents’ credit and mine and also compromise my sister’s future. As somebody who knows that when I need help paying back my loans in five years, I can’t ask for it because my parents won’t have any to give, I can’t afford to make hasty decisions today.</p>
<p>Money is real, and financial considerations for many students are real, and I’m sorry, but they can’t be ignored-- no matter how great and wonderful a Duke education is (and it is, it is).</p>
<p>1) I agree that the $100K loan total, which has been almost “generically” used in this thread, is quite unlikely. I base this on numerous briefings received as a member of Duke’s Annual Fund Executive Committee and the Alumni Association’s Executive Committee.</p>
<p>2) Much more important, I truly understand the worthy debate between those who justifiably feel an “elite” (and I loathe using that term) education is a wise investment and those who understandably question its enduring value (given the high cost, the family sacrifices involved, and the fact that not everyone aspires to be a USSC Associate Justice, etc.).</p>
<p>With respect for both viewpoints, I fundamentally side with am. Like her, I come from a proud and solid middle class background, and I would never have attended Duke without a full scholarship (plus a salary) from the Navy. However, I worked very hard to earn that scholarship and I repaid the American people through decades of honorable – perhaps even distinguished – service.</p>
<p>What I discovered in the process is that the COMPREHENSIVE advantages of a most-selective education last for a lifetime and reshape one’s analytical abilities and one’s intellectual breadth. Critically, I believe the saddest words a 30+ year old can think or speak are “what if:” What if I had attended law school? What if I had taken job x in a wonderful non-profit, instead of job y on Wall Street? What if I had had more children? What if I had matriculated at a rather than at b? Obviously, the list is endless.</p>
<p>The point here is that the excellent graduate of a flagship public university is, in my long-considered (I approach 70 soon) opinion, far more likely to become a substantial “what ifer,” than if he had attended “a Duke.” This results as much from the wide-ranging perception of educational – in its broadest sense – quality, as it does from the actual differences in the education quality, between elite universities/LACs and most state schools.</p>
<p>What percent of entry level jobs in the very best firms are highly-disproportionately filled by graduates of elite universities/LACs? Similarly, what proportion of the students at the very best graduate and professional schools are similarly selected? The answer, in both cases, is a LOT; and the reason, I suggest, is that these highly influential institutions are very willing to allow the first – and must-critical – screening to be preformed by undergraduate admissions departments.</p>
<p>Many will suggest that this is fundamentally unfair, and I would agree. However, life frequently isn’t fair. My twin brother has a PhD from Ohio State; he has had a fine life, however, his opportunities have been constrained because his terminal degree is not from an elite university.</p>
<p>Does this make a difference? Clearly, that is an entirely INDIVIDUAL decision, but it could (and, realistically, secondary school seniors have almost no idea where life’s long path will lead). Therefore, I urge youngsters to be acutely aware of the perils of “what if.” Those haunting “what if” deficiencies certainly will be a good deal more important – and far longer lasting – than any loan.</p>
<p>Rating and BlueDog asked about the loan of $100K.
She will take $5k loan and the EFC is $20k a year. $20K a year is not her loan however it is money we have to pay. I have to take it out of my Home Equity Line and other loans. I do not have that kind of cash. So for four years at duke, we will be paying approx $100K (EFC + her loans). She wanst to go to duke. I am supporting her decision and choice. However I am just wondering if she will get $100K worth of ROI from Duke in comparison to an instate university where she is getting almost full ride.</p>
<p>Thank you AM61517, purple and top and others for great insights.
what is LAC and State flagship?
thanks again</p>
<p>LAC is a Liberal Arts College (as referred to a traditional Research Tier 1 University (R1)). The state flagship is typically the largest, ‘magnet’ public school in a state-- so for Texas, it’d be UT-Austin; in North Carolina, it would be UNC-Chapel Hill.</p>
<p>I have been following this discussion with interest. I am curious, Mnmno, do you really have NO college savings whatsoever set aside? I don’t mean to offend you, but just wondering why you can’t pay any cash at all towards tuition?</p>
<p>Mocha,
You did not offend me, I was not making good money in the starting. Then I got a good job and bought a house. I have paying extra towards my mortgage so I do not have any savings. Home equity line is the saving. I have take out loan from heloc.</p>
<p>Sorry for typo and grammatical errors in the above post. I am using iPad and some keystrokes do not cone thru. Cc is not letting me edit my post.</p>
<p>It’s your personal opinion. Because you pay more doesn’t necessarily mean you will receive a better education. That being said, choose what makes you happy in the long run.</p>
<p>Honor colleges in the state-flag public universities could be better choice if he/she is admitted. And then going to prestigious private graduate schools with a scolarship would be a cost-effective way with a high return of investment.</p>