Is engineering a bubble that will burst?

Parents Forum
1

I’ve read the umpteenth post about how practical an engineering major is and how that major guarantees a great job upon graduation, and even if you don’t really love building things or math or physics or whatever, you should do it anyway. (Maybe that last is parents saying that, more).

But I have a question.

With so many kids now majoring or clamoring to major in some form of it, and many engineering jobs moving overseas, are engineering jobs going to be there for all of these grads?

(If not, I assume many of those grads will move off into not-engineering jobs since they presumably have a foundation in math/physics/critical thought/hopefully writing, etc. But in that event they could have chosen something else).

Just curious what you think, especially those who work in or around that field.

2

No, especially not for civil engineers :slight_smile: or at least I hope since I have one graduating in hopefully a year or by next winter for sure. His CE classes are no where near as large as the ME classes.

3

I think we might end up with too many CS degrees.

4

^ I’m curious about that. It seems that the only skill an engineer needs these days is coding. My sister, an electrical engineer, is trying to learn more coding techniques for her job. One acquaintance of mine, an aerospace engineering major, got a 6-month co-op because he could do C++. Is there anything else engineers do or is it all coding?

Not being impertinent, I’m genuinely curious.

5

@usualhopeful I had that thought too - that’s a job that’s maybe even easier to move overseas.

I think we all agree that certain fields within engineering aren’t a great idea to choose because they’re too specific and focused on aging industries (petroleum). I’ve heard anecdotally that biomedical job prospects aren’t that great always. Are there others?

And if certain engineering majors must go out of engineering to find work, are they at a disadvantage with (again anecdotally), lower gpas and/or too much specialized training?

6

Some numbers.

Bachelor’s Degrees award:
2008-2009: 74,387
2014-2015: 106,658

Total Undergraduate Enrollment:
2008-2009: 427,503
2014-2015: 610,461

https://www.asee.org/papers-and-publications/publications/college-profiles/09EngineeringbytheNumbersPart1.pdf

https://www.asee.org/papers-and-publications/publications/college-profiles/15EngineeringbytheNumbersPart1.pdf

What we don’t have numbers on, is the rate engineers attrite out of the market due to retirement, etc. We know this rate is increasing as the baby boomer generation reaches retirement age. We also know the economy has continued to grow (slowly over the last 7 or 8 years).

7

@albert69 , C++ ( or other languages) would probably augment an engineer’s ability with problem solving. I don’t think it would mean a typical engineer would be sitting around all day “coding.” It should be a plus to have facility with computer applications. Civil engineers use things like AutoCad, for design, etc. but doesn’t mean they still don’t have to also have a solid background in other subjects. Civil engineers, in particular, many times , are licensed as Professional Engineers, as their work can involve public safety. But I am not an engineer, so hopefully an engineer will chime in with the best, most correct info.

8

Engineering employment prospects do vary with economic and industry cycles. For example, the mid-2000s was a good time to find employment for civil engineers, but the late-2000s was an awful time to find employment for civil engineers. Petroleum engineer job prospects are obviously tied to oil prices.

However, beyond such cyclical fluctuations in demand for engineers, the supply side tends to be regulated by the rigor and workload of ABET-accredited engineering degree programs. Engineering is a popular and impacted major at many state flagship level schools, but when one moves to schools with less selective admissions (where enrollment outnumbers the enrollment at the state flagship level schools), it is not particularly popular, partly due to the high attrition rate out of engineering at schools with less selective admissions.

Also, most engineering majors tend not to be “default majors” for popular pre-professional directions the way biology is for pre-med students and political science is for pre-law students (though there is some of that effect in biomedical engineering with respect to pre-med students).

9

It pays well over average for most majors, it pays above average for STEM degrees, and it’s reasonably possible to find a job. There is absolutely no guarantee to find a job, much less a great job, upon graduation.

No. It’s miserable if you have no love for it at all. Though perhaps if you have a moderate but not strong interest, it’s not a bad choice.

It is an issue, it has always been an issue, and it will continue to be an issue for the foreseeable future. Engineers are not alone in suffering from this - other professionals who work on the kinds of projects engineers work with (a lot of people) suffer from outsourcing as well. Automation is another reason - automate a task, you no longer need as many salaries workers (engineers included) to maintain it. Foreign H1-B workers are another concern - more competition for jobs. And so on.

It’s not a field without its problems, to put it simply. A lot of people are overly optimistic about how things are going, because it is indeed better than average, but these problems do exist.

Hopefully. You’d be surprised though. I’ve been amazed before at how bad some engineers are at basic skills like physics, math, and especially writing. Some people get tunnel vision after some years and stop being all that well-rounded.

It’s very common that people land far from where they started, career-wise. Engineers are no different.

And to answer the title of the thread:

“Engineering” is no more a single field than “business” or “science.” It’s a field with a lot of different sub-fields, each with their own markets that are either in recession or in a boom. Computer science, especially certain hot subfields like social media and related subjects (websites, data mining, etc.) are in a boom. Civil engineering is in a bit of a recession, still recovering from the real estate crash that happened a few years ago. Petroleum is suffering from the crash in the oil prices. A lot of the big infrastructure fields are suffering from outsourcing. Defense contractors are doing pretty good (they fell into a real rut at the end of the Cold War). I could go on…

So, basically it’s a market.

10

We have already had boom/bust cycles before. I graduated HS at the height of the cold war.
Engineering jobs related to military spending was huge, and engineering admissions were very competitive.
By the time I graduated, there was an economic slump, layoffs and many engineers could not find employment coming out of college. I have met in my day furniture store salesmen who had trained as engineers. Know life insurance salesmen who were former nuclear engineers.

I think today’s bubble is bigger than prior ones and will burst harder.
That said, I have lobbied hard to get my kids to focus on computer science as there seems to be no
shortage of need for those with top skills in that field, which is in demand in many industries.
But for ME, EE it’s a boom bust career, with need to relocate or change careers every so often.

11

I don’t see a huge bubble waiting to burst, outside of the social media / consumer tech industry. That’s the only industry right now where funny money is being thrown around recklessly. It might explode or it might deflate, but it won’t last forever.

Software in general is going to remain important though. It does matter and it will survive a weaker economy.

12

Computing has a big time crash in the early 2000s, so it is not immune from industry cycles.

Obviously, in any profession (not just engineering or computing), it would be desirable to build up savings to be able to survive an extended period of unemployment if there is an industry downturn in your area.

13

because there is not enough of the critical mass of engineers in USA. You can’t have Manhattan project with a handful of engineers. If there are not enough talent, it will be 1) imported and/or 2) outsourced.

14

Engineering really needs a certain mindset. I think a lot of the kids who see it only as a job skill limit themselves. They’re the ones scrambling for good work. Or bored rotten because they’re not idea people. It’s really a fascinating field, when done right.

15

@lookingforward Exactly, my H has enjoyed his career, could retire but probably won’t for a few years. My sons really both seem energized by interesting projects they are involved in and opportunities for research, patents, etc. Pushing a kid into engineering that really has not expressed a genuine interest in it just because they “should do it anyway” to get a job seems foolish. It is a tough major. They very well may not do well enough to succeed anyway if their heart and mind is really not into it.

16

A student who studies engineering could easily land a job as an investment banker.

A student who studies engineering could easily land a job as a marketer.

A student who studies engineering could easily land a job as an advertiser.

A student who studies engineering could easily land a job as a trader.

A student who studies engineering could easily land a job as a teacher.

A student who studies engineering could easily land a job as a research analyst.

A student who studies engineering could easily land a job as a management consultant.

With some additional training, a student who studies engineering could easily land a job as a financial analyst or accountant.

I worked on Wall Street for 20 years. We tried, mostly unsuccessfully, to recruit top engineering students. They generally had other interests.

Engineering specific jobs may decrease, but the demand for intelligent problem solvers will never wane.

The possibilities are endless. JMHO.

17

Inteligent problem solvers :slight_smile: And, collaborative.

18

@californiaaa , jobs are outsourced to India because the workers are cheaper. Period.

19

so what’s the best path to maximize your prospects?

take fullest advantage of co-op opportunities?
double major in two broader engr disciplines (ME+EE)?
double major one broader discipline + more specialized “niche” field? (ME + Paper Science Engr for example) ?
double major with a liberal arts discipline that you show an aptitude for (ME + History or Creative Writing)?
would there be any advantage to double major in ME and Physics, or would that be considered somewhat redundant?

20

Just major in industrial engineering and be done with it. In general, engineers design things. Industrial engineers design better ways to do things. They’re all about efficiency and productivity, which ultimately means profitability, making IE sort of the business side of engineering. They are hired by literally every industry, to do things that will always be in demand (when will productivity not be in demand), and largely can’t be outsourced.