is is unethical for college violin teacher to charge $250 a lesson for perspective st

College Majors Music Majors
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<p>is is unethical for college violin teacher to charge $250 a lesson for perspective students? I’m going to name names, of course., but there are at least two that my S has encountered. The other usually only ask $100 to $150. The two who are asking $250 are not even at the top-tier schools(top five?)</p>

<p>back when S was applying for undergraduate, most teachers didn’t charge anything… a few only asked for $70 or $80? This was several years ago. Have the rates really gone up that much? </p>

<p>While I think it’s only natural to pay for the time, isn’t $250 for one hour a little much? Or is it mostly a way to deter perspective students who have very little chance of getting into that school? While it’s not a fair comparison, I just want to point out that my independent car mechanic charges $165 per hour for labor and he guarantees his work for 1-year/unlimited miles. :D</p>

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<p>When someone charges $x an hour, that doesn’t mean they are actually making $x/hr. There are certain costs involved with any product or service, in the case of music you are not paying just for the current time but also for all of the hours and hours of practice and study that teacher has put in. </p>

<p>So is it unethical for one person or company to charge more than the “going” rate? Nope. Lots of businesses charge more than most of their competitors and we don’t call that unethical. Pricing is purely a business decision.</p>

<p>That said, if someone was to actually “make” $250 an hour, 40 hours a week, then after subtracting out for self employment taxes, that would be about $500k/yr, which barely puts them into the top 1% (the top 1% averages something close to $1.5 million/yr). Do you think that this professor is in the top 1% in skills and ability and value to society? If so, then $250/hr is a bargain. If not, then just don’t pay him $250/hr. It’s not like anyone is forcing you to do it. My son didn’t get any sample lessons, most prospective music students don’t. It’s not a necessity.</p>

<p>Just putting things into perspective, my doctor charges me $117 just to renew my blood pressure prescription. I spend less than 5 minutes total with the doc/nurse/check-in girl/cashier. That works out to $1,404/person/hr for a crew that has only an average skill and education level. And there are no guarantees whatsoever in medical treatments.</p>

<p>The minimum wage lunch hour french fry cook at McDonalds can produce over 800 packs of fries per hour - thats about a penny per pack. McDonalds spends about 8 cents on the potatoes and oil, and packaging and is thus effectively charging the customer $1,280/hr for the production of a minimum wage worker. </p>

<p>Ya, we have some crazy bad distribution of income/wealth in America, but I think thats maybe a topic for a different website. </p>

<p>So if you don’t mind paying the checkout girl at your doctors office over a thousand dollars an hour, and the minimum wage worker at McDonalds over a thousand dollars an hour, and spending $165/hr with your independent care mechanic who probably doesn’t have a bachelors degree let alone a graduate degree, you really shouldn’t get upset over paying a college professor $250/hr - it’s a bargain. </p>

<p>It’s all about perspective.</p>

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<p>californiaharp, I think imagep has covered the ‘what is a teacher’s time worth’ perspective well. I just wanted to add that I’m really surprised your S wound up paying for the sample lessons at all. My D had 5 or 6 sample lessons (it’s all a blur now…), and while she or I asked every teacher if we could compensate them for their time, not once did they accept payment.</p>

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<p>I know that for her grad school lessons D paid between 150 to 200 per lesson. And as an undergrad for “sample lessons” she never paid anything. Generally the pre grad school lesson consisted of a full hour of work and at least a half hour of interview. All of the teacher were well known, “in demand” teachers. If I remember the undergrad sample lessons rarely took a full hour… Whenever D contacted a teacher for her grad lessons, she insisted that it be the full amount the teacher usually asked for a private student, since she wanted to experience an entire hour of lesson. Perhaps that’s the difference?</p>

<p>And the reason someone asks $250? Because they can.</p>

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<p>It’s not unethical at all. A violin teacher at a major conservatory has only so many hours a day, most of which are already committed to his/her current performance and teaching schedule. Giving side lessons to prospective students is an added burden on an already-packed schedule. One way to limit that number to the truly serious students is to charge the going private lesson rate. </p>

<p>When my daughter was looking at school she had lessons or “played for” many teachers, most of whom did not charge her. Some did charge, and it was up to $200 for a lesson (a couple of years ago.) She was grateful for every lesson, whether or not we had to pay for it. How else would she learn about that particular teacher’s style? She also had some a la carte regular lessons with teachers who charged up to $200. Although many of these lessons ended up being free, we never expected it. Why should a busy professional give out free “sample” lessons when their time is already booked up with students in whom they have an invested teacher-student relationship?</p>

<p>In any event, since we were sometimes flying or driving hundreds of miles to reach these teachers, the lessons were never truly “free” and paying for their time was only one factor in the expense of searching for a studio.</p>

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<p>I agree… even if the lessons were free, most student drive/fly hundreds(if not thousands) of miles to meet the teacher. $250 is small change compared to airfare, hotel, etc… :slight_smile: I remember one of the trips my S and I did back then cost us nearly $3000. (airfare for two from LA to NY/BOS, 4 nights of hotels, rental cars, meals, taxis, airport shuttles, etc) </p>

<p>What if the student is already accepted into the school’s graduate program and wants to meet the professor before making a decision? For example, my S has already met and paid for a lesson with Professor “K” recently. If he’s accepted into that school’s graduate program next year but still wants another lesson with Professon “K” before signing on the dotted contract(I mean acceptance letter :slight_smile: )< should my S offer to pay $250 again?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>D had three lessons (two after accepted) with her grad teacher before the semester began and she paid for each. Unless it’s your scheduled lesson when school is in session, you are expected to pay. Later,every once and a while the teacher threw her a “freebie”.</p>

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<p>S is paying $150/hr for private lesson with principal of Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Apparently that’s cheap!</p>

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<p>When D was looking at schools, we paid for sample lessons. Once D was accepted and decided on a school, she had to choose a teacher and we were not charged for those sample lessons.</p>

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<p>The cost of a lesson is set up by the teacher and 250 bucks is not the top of the line I have heard, it depends on what the teacher asks and what people will pay. With top level private teachers here in the NYC area I would hazard a guess that the average hourly cost is prob 125 or so, with other ranging up or down from there, and even my S’s old teacher, who is not at that top level, these days gets nearly 100/hour. I have also heard of wanted teachers, principal players on violin in major orchestras charging well over 300/hour (I can’t confirm or deny that, but I am pretty sure that the private students of for example the concertmasters of major orchestras on violin are paying alot…also depends on supply and demand, if a lot of people want teacher X they can charge a lot more. </p>

<p>Is it worth that kind of money? Very hard to say, because it is very hard to effective rate a teacher. Personally I think pending 250 bucks on a private lesson to see if it is a fit with the student is worth the money, because what if the kid goes there and finds out the teacher is hard to work with? They then have to go through the agony of switching teachers, assuming another teacher at that program has a slot open, willing to take them (which some teachers may hesitate to do) and is as good or better…</p>

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<p>Also, for voice $250/lesson usually covers the fee for an accompanist too.</p>

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<p>$250 for a voice lesson would be very unusual, and no sample lesson my D has ever had had an accompanist present at all.; the same holds true for her friends. At top urban conservatories one can expect to pay over $100 though.
Only at one school was she charged for a sample lesson, and considering how disorganized the place was, I can only hope that the funds went to by the dept head and the teacher calendar planners and some help with time management!</p>

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<p>Three of D’s sample lessons in NY had an accompanist and we were told so beforehand.</p>

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<p>Usually these lessons are paid directly to the teacher, not to the school. As in, cash in the pocket or a check made out to the teacher. </p>

<p>As for the question about whether to pay after the student has been accepted: my daughter was in this position two years ago, and the compensation for playing for teachers where she had been accepted was also all over the place. Most of them did not charge but she always asked. I remember being surprised by one teacher, in particular, because she had had a substantial and very friendly correspondence with both my daughter and me (the latter, unusual, about advocating for more scholarship.) But, when we visited the school she still charged $90 for the lesson. I still felt that it was completely within her rights to charge for her time, even though I wasn’t expecting it. Another teacher met us in a different city (where he was performing) and had to go to some effort on his own part to arrange a studio for the lesson. But he refused to take any compensation. So what I took away from these many experiences is there is no way to know-- just always be prepared to offer because it is not worth risking a relationship over the cost of an a la carte lesson.</p>