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<p>A reason for that is that many respectable/elite private colleges don’t feel AP courses or scores of 3, or even 4 or 5 demonstrate coverage and mastery of material comparable to what is covered in their equivalent college course. </p>
<p>And from what I’ve seen while tutoring college classmates, having even a 5 on an AP exam is no guarantee a given student has covered and mastered the material equivalent to the depth and rigor of the college’s own courses. </p>
<p>There may be financial motivations behind policies on accepting AP scores and college courses taken while in high school for credit units (as opposed to subject credit). State subsidized universities want students to graduate as quickly as they can, to avoid using any more state subsidy than they need to, so they are generous with credit units. Private universities may want to avoid that, so they have an incentive to be stingy with credit units (although not all are).</p>
<p>Whether the AP scores are accepted for subject credit or placement into higher level courses is not necessarily the same as the policy for credit units at any given school.</p>
<p>A student considering using an AP score to place into a higher level course would probably find it a good idea to try the old final exams of the university’s course that can be skipped, to check his/her knowledge from the university’s point of view.</p>
<p>Most top performers from our area end up at state flagships. Many even go to out-of-state flagships, even though we have our own desirable flagship that attracts a large percentage of out-of-state students. I think there are many reasons for making the choice that have already been mentioned (cost, location, AP credit), but I think for many it comes down to size. A lot of top students are not intimidated by a school of 25000-45000 students and class sizes of 150-200. They want the advantages a large research university offers. A large school offers more of most everything … more majors, more minors, more classes, more diversity, more clubs, and more activities and events. Large schools also have the advantage of offering classes at all times, providing the best lab equipment available, having D1 sports and the resultant school spirit, plus great rec. centers, a variety of dining options and a choice of housing styles. Many students feel that having professors that are involved in research is a huge advantage, rather than being a disadvantage as some believe. They feel the trade-off of research professors being cutting-edge rather than totally dedicated to teaching is worth it. I think they have a confidence that they can rise to the top no matter how big the school. Big schools aren’t for everyone, but they can provide boundless opportunity for top caliber students willing to take advantage.</p>
<p>@gearmom: You are correct that those schools have D1 sports, but I meant they don’t have the type of nationally known teams that often attract OOS students. Rutgers has been trying to upgrade its football program, with not a lot of success, but the stands are usually pretty full.</p>
<p>@mom2and URI has 41% OOS students which is a very high percentage. A large number of them are from NJ and NY. They come for the beaches and pharmacy. They don’t need more OOS students. They need to stop the brain drain of instate students.</p>
<p>I would say that “yes” most of the top students in our state attend one of our big state u’s. We have a great public university system here in N.C. Of the top ten students in S1’s high school class, nine of them went to instate public universities (including my S1). The one who didn’t go to state u. went to Columbia. </p>
<p>I can only speak about the school district in my town outside of Albany NY and except for the state part of Cornell, an overwhelming number of the top students go to private colleges and universities. Most of the top students apply to Bing or Geneseo as safeties. Outside the top students, OTOH, SUNY are very popular. I think a lot of parents dont want to spend $60k a year for a “B” school for their B student when for $20k they can go to a SUNY. </p>
<p>Funny…lots of kids around here (CT) look at other flagships…most notable on the list…University of New Hampshire, University of Delaware, University of Massachusetts-Amherst, SUNY schools, Rutgers, Pitt. </p>
<p>UConn just doesn’t have seats for all who apply. And it’s in a very rural location which isn’t what some kids are seeking.</p>
<p>In my state, (AZ), the vast majority of students go either in-state or apply to CA schools. (Some are WUE, but most aren’t). Looking at the government geographic data on “student exports and imports” is very revealing, as is looking at the College Board data on where kids send SAT scores. States vary widely, for many reasons.</p>
<p>In AZ, though, as one parent said to me yesterday, a rock could get into the state schools. (Not completely true, but close.) Gaining admission to the Honors Colleges is a point of pride, even is it costs more $. I’ve you leave high school, no one will ever know how many APs you took or how well you scores on your SAT, so many kids feel that time and effort was “wasted” if they join the general population.</p>
<p>“Funny…lots of kids around here (CT) look at other flagships…most notable on the list…University of New Hampshire, University of Delaware, University of Massachusetts-Amherst, SUNY schools, Rutgers, Pitt.”</p>
<p>I agree, but the question the OP asked was about high achieving students. UNH, UDel, Pitt etc., would be safety schools for the top students - while UVA, UMich, W&M would be OOS public U’s the top students might apply to and choose to attend. </p>
<p>I don’t think it would come as a surprise to anyone that the majority of all students attend public U’s (Flagship or otherwise) in their states. </p>
<p>Sorry but where I am, some mighty fine, high achieving students are at UDel, U of New Hampshire, Ritgers, and some of the SUNY schools. There are plenty of smart kids at those schools.</p>
<p>And Pitt is actually quite competitive for its high merit awards…very competitive actually. </p>
<p>We know very smart engineering major is who went to UDel and got great merit awards.</p>
<p>And from my neck of the woods, very few kids apply to Michigan, UVA or WM. </p>
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<p>However, don’t the AZ state schools have good academics for the strong students? The “rocks” probably won’t be in the same courses that the strong students choose. The “wide” range at those schools also does provide the opportunity for a “turnaround” or “late bloomer” student whose high school record is not that great, but steps up the commitment to academics in college.</p>
<p>Of course, if a student judges the school by the worst regular (i.e. not recruited athlete or kid of huge donor) applicant who can get admitted, and does not want such to have significantly lower academic credentials than himself/herself, then s/he will not likely be able to find any safety that s/he likes.</p>
<p>OK. Just not my experience in my community or among people I know who had/have top students. Look at CC, for instance, and the lists of schools where the top students are applying. CC is not typical of the majority of students in this country, but neither is my school district or other districts around NYS with a high SES population… They look way more like your typical CC poster than the population as a whole. </p>
<p>FYI, article in the WSJ
<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/public/page/rankings-career-college-majors.html”>http://online.wsj.com/public/page/rankings-career-college-majors.html</a>
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<p>The only 2 ivies in the WSJ top 25 recruiter list are cornell & mit:
<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704554104575435563989873060”>http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704554104575435563989873060</a></p>
<p>MIT is not in the Ivy League.</p>
<p>State universities’ size is also an advantage. A recruiter will expose his/her employer to a greater number of students at a huge state university, compared to a smaller Ivy League school or LAC. Of course, smaller schools may have particular concentrations of students that attract certain employers. For example, an employer looking specifically for engineering students may go to MIT or SDSMT, while a very school-prestige-conscious employer may go to super-selective schools.</p>
<p>I wonder if the OP started this thread to help him with his college essay on college costs…see his other threads.</p>
<p>We live in a high SES area as well. And we are surrounded by expensive private universities, including the Ivy League Schools, and MIT. Even with that, students with stats that are competitve for admission to these top 20 schools…who would receive not a nickel of need based aid, are applying to schools where their impressive stats would garner merit aid.</p>
<p>Lots of discussion about that over in the financial aid forum here on CC.</p>
<p>Some higher income families can afford the $60,000 plus per year costs to attend these top schools without aid. Others simply cannot. </p>
<p>I don’t think there is a simple answer to the OP’s question…at all.</p>
<p>UCBAlumnus,</p>
<p>There are many great programs at or state schools. And yes, after freshman year, there is a huge drop-off, which leaves the brighter kids with their more committed peers.</p>
<p>My comment was not to “diss” the programs, but rather to comment on the behavior and attitudes of high-performing students. They tend to apply in-state early and see the Honors programs as a way of distinguishing themselves from their less academic peers, who will also receive acceptances to the universities. They figure that the HC designation will help later, which it may, depending on the program. </p>
<p>@thumper1 I’m confused about the Ivy Leagues ad the merit aid question… don’t most ivy leagues largely discount tuition for those who can barely afford it?</p>
<p>For example, take Columbia:</p>
<p>“Parents with calculated incomes below $60,000 a year and typical assets are expected to contribute $0 towards their children’s Columbia education.”</p>
<p>And this topic wasnt to spark ideas for my essay. I just found it interesting how in my school, most students are obsessed with going to a “top-tier college” while in most other schools, it isnt uncommon for top students to go to their state flagship schools.</p>
<p>Talk is cheap report back next December and tell us where your top 10 went. My kids’ school district almost always send one or two out of state to an ivy or other highly selective small college but the rest can be found at UofM or MSU. </p>
<p>Jarjar, what part of the country are you from? In the Northeast, it is relatively less uncommon for high achieving students to want to go to the state flagship. (I said relatively, so don’t everybody jump on me because they know one kid, blah blah blah). In the rest of the country, it is very common for high achieving students to want to go to the state flagship. Particularly in California, with a lot of good UC’s to choose from, and in the Midwest with the B1G 10 schools.<br>
No one would blink an eye out here at a good student choosing U of Illinois. </p>