<p>Same in Alabama. My school is full of kids who got 34-36 ACT with no prep, 4.0 UW, all APs/IBs who have no interest in Ivies or Ivy-like school. They usually go to Auburn, Alabama, or UGA. There’s a big advantage to entering as a sophomore for AP credits or the enjoyment of a bigger school or the atmosphere of a place that feels more family than competition. For a lot of people, fit is more important than prestige. Plus, full tuition scholarships are nothing to turn one’s nose up at, either. Don’t forget that state flagships - especially big football flagships - have a big presence and endowment, too. It’s hardly as if the academics are lacking.</p>
<p>It’s not only the state flagships, it’s the Northeasterns, Drexels and Fordhams of the world, as well as some elite schools that may give them merit (e.g. UVA, JHU, Duke, Vanderbilt, etc.) We’re in an upper middle class area and I believe a change has occurred over the last few years where EFC full pay families would rather pay for college out of cash flow and savings (if any) than take on debt. There is also an assumption that it is better to save your pennies for grad school (and if necessary, borrow then) than it is to throw lots of money at undergrad.</p>
<p>That said, NONE of my kid’s high stats friends liked the Ivies enough to apply. I don’t think it’s sour grapes since their parents are unwilling or unable to pay full freight, but who knows? At a school with a dozen or more National Merit kids, there are exactly three kids applying to Ivies (or Stanford/MIT) - two to Penn (and both of them have parents working there), and one kid is applying to Stanford, but if one of those elite schools comes through with a full scholarship, her parents have told her Stanford is off the table. </p>
<p>I keep waiting to see the change reflected on the common data sets but so far the number of full pay families doesn’t really seem to change from year to year at the Ivies. If the trend I’m seeing here is representative of a larger trend, I guess we’ll either start seeing the number of full pay kids drop, or the number of international (full pays) rise.</p>
<p>@Jarjarbinks23, I can’t say for sure what the attraction of the honors college is - perhaps to distinguish themselves from the ‘regular’ students, perhaps because of special opportunities afforded to honor college students, or because they want to be in classes with students on their ability level. My kids all chose private schools and did not want to stay in the area.</p>
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<p>Depends on the grad school. </p>
<p>For instance, it is really foolhardy not only from a financial perspective, but also for long-term career goals to pay for one’s PhD studies as the absence of departmental funding or a scholarship equivalent is often regarded by hiring committees looking for tenure track applicants as a red flag sign the applicant without such funding/scholarship is an academic dilettante the grad department didn’t think was worth funding. </p>
<p>A number of students who did get accepted to highly selective schools from DS’s high school last year, turned them down for a good discount on a less presigious college. </p>
<p>Halfmy: Are your sure about the applications? Or what kids that are not your child’s friends are doing? Or is it that kids from your high school don’t get into the Ivies and so don’t apply? I have seen no evidence that applications to the super elites are declining and certainly not at our high school. Some kids don’t tell if they are applying to a school with a 5-10% admittance rate. As had been said numerous times, the Ivies offer need-based aid fairly high up the income ladder so if a kid has the stats, could be a good choice. </p>
<p>In my NYC suburb, the top kids use their ED applications to apply to Ivies and other top 20s. Also many kids pick OOS publics over Rutgers or other in-state schools. In some cases this is because they didn’t get into Rutgers, but in others it is simply wanting to be away from NJ. That being said, Rutgers is where the highest number of graduates go each year and often is a financial choice and that includes some of the top students. That being said, it is still considered something of a lesser choice for kids that have worked incredibly hard through high school to end up at Rutgers, although very few have transferred out and a number have transferred in. </p>
<p>Many families here would be full pay, but with the high cost of living don’t feel comfortable paying for the expensive privates. Besides being in NJ and so too close to home, kids don’t like the size of Rutgers and possibly its location. Penn State is a very popular choice but so is U of Delaware and to some extent U Maryland… I think the SUNYs, URI and U Mass are not popular because they don’t have the big D1 sports many kids that pick large schools are interested in. The top SUNYs are very competitive as I understand it so some kids may choose to go OOS rather than to one of the “lesser” SUNY campuses. </p>
<p>Many kids from our HS do go full pay to schools that are not elite like Syracuse or GW (great schools, but not considered tip top at least here).</p>
<p>Many public flagship Us have wide alumni networks. Of course an Ivy is typically better regarded, but most smart kids that go to a flagship and put in the effort do just fine in getting into grad school or getting a good job. </p>
<p>@mom2and - I wouldn’t say that I’m 100% sure about all the top kids, but I am very certain about the top kids who are my D’s friends, both from the kids themselves and from their parents. My impression of the top kids (or more accurately what my D is telling me) is that Drexel and Northeastern will probably get close to a third of them. And no doubt Pitt, who seemed to hand out quite a few full tuition scholarships to kids at our school, will get a few of them. Our school has historically fed into the Ivy League, but last year, there were only four - two kids who went to Penn, another who went to Princeton, and another to Dartmouth. What’s unclear to me is if this year’s top kids, whose first choices are schools like Duke and Vanderbilt, will be going to those schools even if they don’t get merit money. </p>
<p>Duke and Vandy are not much of a step down from the Ivies, esp if they can get merit money. I had the impression you were stating that the top students were choosing state schools over Ivies so my mistake. It may be that kids are being more realistic or just happen to like those better. </p>
<p>At our HS, Northwestern, Wash U and similar are also quite popular with the kids that have Ivy level stats (along with Penn State, U Mich and others). </p>
<p>@mom2and What D1 sports do UMass and URI not have? Football, basketball, soccer, baseball all D1 and hockey at UMass. Heck, Geoff Cameron went to URI to play D1 soccer. Still baffled by @blossom 's assertion that at a school with 12000 kids, you will know them all even though only 5 from your class actually attend.</p>
<p>I never asserted that a kid would know them all- I asserted that kids I know who live in Rhode Island are convinced that they will know them all due to proximity, sports, Eagle scout, youth symphony, etc. Cranston and Warwick and Providence and Pawtucket… we’re not talking the distance between Houston and Dallas and San Antonio.</p>
<p>In California, most high-achieving kids stay instate; many will apply to CalTech and Stanford – the western MIT/Ivy – but feel perfectly fine about attending Cal, UCLA, UCSB, etc.</p>
<p>There’s less of a tradition of leaving the state for college in CA than in the East, in part because there are so many excellent instate options, including the two so-called flagships and other UCs, in part because of the distance. </p>
<p>So from a logical standpoint, with 13354 undergrad students at URI, over 5500 are out of state. So they probably don’t know those. The percent of instate students is dropping to almost half and is now 59%. Do you think they will know 8000 kids from scouts and dance? Me neither. From the top 80 honor students from our top performing RI high school, only one went to URI. One. There may be a lot of reasons kids go elsewhere but saying it will be just like high school and they will be surrounded by people they know is downright silly though it probably gets their parents to write the check for out of state tuition. And even though you think this is snarky, it has been my experience that the kids do not think it is cool to go their own flagship in NE just as it has been my experience that URI was nothing like high school and I barely saw people I knew.</p>
<p>Just want to comment on the SUNY topic! I was a high-achieving kid, I suppose, and loved every minute at Binghamton. It’s a fantastic option and I just wish it had more of a national reputation. I think the lack of a flagship is a big part of it, but it still seems odd to me that it never really caught on in the way it could have. To go back to the original question, I’m at an Ivy now and I can say with 100% honesty that I preferred Binghamton. I can’t put my finger on why. It’s just a personal preference.</p>
<p>A young woman I know went to Cal for undergraduate and is now doing her PhD at Princeton. She much preferred Cal, and can’t wait to leave P’ton. As you said, personal preference. </p>
<p>I’m in NY state and the reason my top student doesn’t have any SUNYs on her list is that there is no scholarship or institutional grant money to be had. The privates and some OOS schools are cheaper per the NPC. </p>
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<p>Sounds like one thing which hasn’t changed much from my HS days in the early-mid '90s. Due to budget cuts to the CUNY/SUNY systems, they really weren’t much of a financial boon for most HS classmates unless their academic stats were closer to the bottom of the class and/or they blew off their applications and SUNY/CUNY ended up being their only option. </p>
<p>In my case, I’d have paid more and accumulated more debt by going to a SUNY/CUNY…even as a commuter as opposed to going off to my private LAC on a near-full ride FA/scholarship package. And IMO…gotten a crappier mass educational experience in the bargain if I go by accounts of what I’ve heard from folks who went to the SUNY/CUNY schools. </p>
<p>Especially considering the CUNYs of that time was widely regarded as “13th grade” for those at the very bottom of HS graduating classes. Fortunately, with the introduction of Macaulay Honors and other initiatives, this perception has changed somewhat. </p>
<p>My daughter goes to the public school in a neighboring state. She knew TWO kids who attend, both went to K with her, even though there are probably 500 or more freshman from this state. She liked having two ‘friends’ to say hello to those first few days, but met many new friends. My niece goes to a private school 1000 miles away, yet knew 15-20 other students from her high school and activities.</p>
<p>I don’t really get why people think a nearby college has to be just like high school. Find a roommate you don’t know, join some clubs with new friends. It’s nice to see a familiar face sometimes, but you don’t have to limit your social circle to just them.</p>
<p>Another plus for the SUNYs (and I presume other state schools) is that they will accept more APs than the privates,including 3s. They’ll also give credit for college level classes taken in HS while most privates don’t. My kids applied to SUNYs but ended up elsewhere. We know many kids however who were able to graduate in 3 years from SUNYs (mostly Binghamton or Stony Brook) due to APs, Project Advance classes through Syracuse, etc. - Many of these kids ended up at top grad schools.</p>
<p>Neither son attended our flagship, the U. of Virginia, as undergraduates. It is an awesome school, but both boys sought the OOS experience and headed to Alabama. They had full tuition rides (in the case of my older son, he had a terrific National Merit package). Their AP/DE credits made one a first semester junior and the other a second semester sophomore. They enjoyed the opportunities that their schools offered, and each one found his challenges academically. </p>
<p>They would have had excellent academics at UVA, but they also would have had student debt. Neither one wanted that, so going OOS allowed the oldest the graduate debt-free. The younger one just started OOS, and his outside scholarship monies should pay for his room for the first two years. </p>
<p>BTW, the oldest is at UVA Law. On a full scholarship. And he loves it.</p>
<p>Rebeccar: One of my son’s law school classmates attended SUNY Binghamton and says nothing but positive things about the school.</p>
<p>Also in VA. Son went to TJHSST, where most of the high achieving kids ended up in the state universities (UVA, VT, W&M). My son also received the NMF package at UA and is there now. He had enough AP credits to make up a second semester Sophomore going in. UA is a great deal for high achieving kids due to its generous scholarships and the various honors programs. </p>
<p>My sister attended SUNY Binghamton as an undergrad (it was over 30 years ago) and received a fellowship for a PhD at Yale after graduating. </p>
<p>AFAIK for an undergrad, it doesn’t really matter where you go. Grad school counts for much more.</p>