<p>Paying for college has been such a regular and hot topic on CC. But I have not seen this aspect being discussed.</p>
<p>Why should a regular student pay the same tuition and Fee when he/she does not get the same as the Honor students?</p>
<p>Honor students get to pick classes first, have their own nice dorm, get special classes taught by professors, and have assess to additional resources for all type of helps. But often times, honor students pay a lot less than a regular student because of merit aids etc. </p>
<p>If we use cruise ship as an example, those who pay more get bigger rooms. Why should a student pay extra for less educational services?</p>
<p>Since, in general, students from higher income families have higher standard test scores. Which translates more of them getting into honor programs which is decided by test scores. A state school’s honor program is basically a redistribution of tax $. Rich families pay less but get better services at the expenses of tax paying lower income families.</p>
<p>Colleges use the merit money awards and special privileges to lure top students to the school. Presumably these highly talented students, who are academically above the midrange of the student body, benefit the campus culture, both inside and outside class.</p>
<p>Other students benefit from this, presumably. In any event, the decision about whether or not to attend the school at full price is up to them.</p>
<p>(This is from a parent who decided to send two kids to schools at full pay and has no regrets. Both of my kids turned down merit money/honors options elsewhere to attend their first choice schools.)</p>
<p>Why should my manager get paid more than I do, even though we both work 40 hours a week?</p>
<p>Managers get free parking, have their own offices, get special classes just for managers, and have access to additional resources. But she gets paid much more than I do because she’s in a higher salary band than I am.</p>
<p>Why would I be paid less for the same amount of time at work?</p>
<p>^^owlice, I would not take my manager’s job even if they would pay me more.</p>
<p>To answer your question, manager often works more than 40 hours a week, they have more responsibilities, a right decison from high level contributes a lot more $ to bottom line than a decision made at a lower level, typically.</p>
<p>To 209, honor students have their own dorm, classes and advisors. They will probably get all the research projects. How would that benefit a regular student?</p>
<p>Dad II, what you’ve just described sounds like some of the perks D1 athletes in “revenue sports” get, and they often do not pay a penny for their schooling because of athletic scholarships!</p>
<p>I think Dad II has a point, especially as these are state schools. It’s one thing to have a program of merit scholarships that the state agrees to fund, but it has a more immediate impact on the rest of the students who are waiting in line for classes that might be already filled every time by H students. I think that perks which re-arrange order or otherwise have a direct impact on other students would have really ticked me if I was one of them.</p>
<p>You don’t have to pay it. There are plenty of other schools out there. Buyer beware. </p>
<p>My beef is that the opportunities are provided not because, when based on SAT scores, students are likely to do better than other admitted students (statistically they aren’t), but rather to attract these students away from the competition. It would seem to me to make more sense to award ‘honors’ perks after the first year of college.</p>
<p>My s is in PSU Schreyer. Small scholarship from the HC supplemented by large outside scholarships…so yeah, we don’t pay much.
A couple of things.
Regular students are welcome to take honors classes. Many don’t cause they’re worried about negative impact on their GPA. Plus I think some students LIKE being invisible and the small honors classes don’t meet that need.
PSU is supported by the state - by only 10% or less. So we’re not talking a lot of tax dollars at work here.
PSU attracts many top students with this honors program…and it’s not all SAT based. They have a holistic admissions process…not stats based.
Attracting top students DOES benefit the entire school by increasing the reputation of the college. Many of these students go on to get national awards.
Also, kids who don’t get admitted in freshman year can apply for admission after completion of their junior year. And you CAN live in the honors dorms even if you’re not an honors student.<br>
Is it fair? Maybe not completely, but since when is life fair? Merit and athletic awards are handed out by other private and state schools, and not just for honors program students. Have you seen the gym and locker room facilities reserved for athletes? Wow. Never bothered me though. I think PSU does a nice job of making sure these kids aren’t isolated and pampered. It’s a good program.</p>
<p>Ah, honor students usually pay less. Often a lot less. That is often why those students go to that school rather than a more selective school. I know kids and families who would not have considered certain state schools without the honors programs. Many were getting merit awards from other choices. By having those students at the school, the overall ratings and quality fo the school are raised. Also most honors programs do have mingling of the students, so that also raises the quality of the school by having highly accomplished students taking classes as well as the mid range and lower. </p>
<p>One of the reasons often cited by families and students for wanting select colleges is so that their student can be with other highly qualified students. By offering an honors colleges, these unis are getting consideration from kids who may not have wanted to go there otherwise.</p>
<p>After hanging around CC for a few years it has become apparent that people prefer colleges that admit students with higher SAT scores than others. They believe that it benefits their student by being around others with high SAT’s and varied EC’s. Many believe in this so strongly that they are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars for their student to be in this environment. Many hire special consultants and use their entire HS career to set themselves apart just to be qualified to be in this environment of high SATs and bright students who have a history of being leaders…</p>
<p>Don’t you want this for your state school students? Aren’t the students at a state school just as “deserving” of being in school with students with high SAT’s so that they can “benefit” from what others perceive to be so very important factors in a school setting?</p>
<p>State schools and other colleges believe that honors programs bring in these kind of students. If they have to lure these students to their school for the common good with merit aid and special perks isn’t it worthwhile? Apparently it is or they would not do so.</p>
<p>In addition state schools often want to keep their smartest kids in the state hoping they will stay and add to the states brain trust post graduation.</p>
<p>Crosspost w/ captofthehouse</p>
<p>To add even the very best colleges allow their athletes to schedule classes first so as to not have any problems with conflicts. Should they also pay more for this perk?</p>
<p>Oh, have no worries … sooner or later, every program will be labeled as Honor Something. The remedial programs that are so prevalent will soon become “regular university.” </p>
<p>After all, it’s important to keep up with the demands of the resident of Lake Wobegon. </p>
<p>This is simply part of a system in which regular classes in high school are becoming rarer by the day; everything has to be AP, IB, Pre-Ap, Pre-IB, Honors I, Honors 2, Pre-Honors, or some other asinine title. It’s only a matter of time for the same lunacy to poison middle school.</p>
<p>In the meantime, our schools are showing no improvement whatsoever and the chasm between the United States education and the rest of the industrailized nations is getting deeper. It used to be that our lagging performance was offset by a better performance in graduating a very high number of students. However, our abysmal performance in graduating students is simply embarassing for the richest country on earth. It has become so bad that the Department of Education has finally realized that the glossy and misleading statistics have to go … at the great dismay of the pseudo-scientists who have defended fabricated data for so long. A quarter of a century after the publication of A Nation at Risk, we are doing worse than ever, despite spending more than ever. </p>
<p>Worrying about the differential costs of Honor programs should be the last of our worries. Making sure our high schools teach high school classes and colleges can function as REAL colleges should be much higher on anyone’s agenda.</p>
<p>I don’t have anything against Honors Programs overall. (I was in one–no preferential registration.) My kids woulda been in them if they went to schools that had them.</p>
<p>Registration can make or break a student’s experience; as an advisor, I know that well. I do think that this is one place where socalled regular students are penalized for the privilege of getting the “smarter” kids to go to school with them, and at the same time I don’t imagine for most of those “smarter” kids, the registration thing is a dealbreaker.</p>
<p>One of the running principles on CC is that you should not get in debt for “better” schools. Under that principle, many of the best students will be attending the state schools just because of the cost along, W/ or W/o honor programs.</p>
<p>Also, I am not arguing that state school should not use merit money to attract top students. My question is about why do they do this at the expense of regular students. In one way, a state school is taking the money from their full paying customers to pay for those who get more services. </p>
<p>What benefit would a regular student get from the “better” reputation of the school? You think a gradute school or an employer will treat two students from the same school the same, if one has a “honor” on his/her resume and the other does not?</p>
It may not be a dealbreaker, but I do know that for a number of kids, it is the dealmaker. Particularly in those large state schools which are known for having significant numbers of kids taking 6 years to graduate because they can’t get their prereqs or major requirements in.</p>
Not true. If honors colleges were not an option then more students would be inclined to go into debt for the better school. Cost, honors, prestige, fit, and several other things are all factors in the absurdly complex decision process, and the availability of an honors program can have a big effect on a student deciding to go ahead and attend the cheaper state school.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The higher caliber students that they attract with the honors program are more likely to get good paying jobs and donate back. At a business you pay the more talented employee more because A) he’ll presumably make you more money and B) he could go elsewhere if you don’t. The regular student just hasn’t created the demand for themself to warrent the treatment that honors program students get. And yes, they are taking the money from full paying students for the honors students. The honors students get more services because they have more to offer. It’s just how it works.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Coming from a school with a good reputation helps you get the interview. It brings more companies to the campus to recruit and it just generally helps everyone out. In my experience, being a regular student with several friends who are honors students, employers don’t care that much about the honors designation. However, much of the work you have to do to keep the honors designation is going to help you in more ways than just looking good on paper.</p>
<p>“Don’t you want this for your state school students? Aren’t the students at a state school just as “deserving” of being in school with students with high SAT’s so that they can “benefit” from what others perceive to be so very important factors in a school setting?”</p>
<p>Not if those “high SATs” are simply a surrogate for family income. Just for the sake of argument, why should a state institution reward a student with perks for the privilege of attracting a student whose family is rich?</p>
<p>"What benefit would a regular student get from the “better” reputation of the school? "</p>
<p>Dad II, I think the answer to this one is “Just about zip!” The college/university reputation game is primarily about college/university administrations and faculties trying to one-up each other. This is fueled, of course by ranking systems such as USNWR that put a lot of emphasis on standardized test scores. When we look at rankings that order colleges and universities by how well they lift graduates into the middle class from lower classes, for example, the order changes drastically (sorry, I’ve lost the link I once had but someone else will find it and post it I’m sure). But, since the people who “care” about college/university rankings are primarily already members of the middle and upper classes, those kinds of rankings don’t end up being quite so important to the powers-that-be at most colleges/universities.</p>
<p>I think that obviously that’s the point I was questioning (whether the lack of it is a dealbreaker.)</p>
<p>So for those probably less affluent, regular kids, having a larger likelihood of 5/6 years registration because they will never have priority, that’s okay?</p>
<p>Re mini’s post: For the sake of argument Many people believe that one of the perks to going to an Ivy is to be around students whose parents are wealthy and therefore have more “opportunities and connections” than other students. So that would indeed be an extra perk for the state school.</p>
Many people believe that one of the perks to going to an Ivy is to be around students whose parents are wealthy and therefore have more “opportunities and connections” than other students. So that would indeed be an extra perk for the state school.</p>