Is it horrible to stretch the truth for financial aid grants?

Paying for College
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<p>I received my SAT scores today, and they are quite high (level 4, 2350), which I am quite thankful for. Also, I am doing countless extra-curricular activities, I’m president of our National Honors Society chapter, and a minority (African American female). So I believe that I can make it to my number one college, Stanford, for my undergrad and for medical school. However, Stanford is quite the highway robbery. My parents (physician and stay-at-home mom) make a combined total of $728,000 before taxes. After taxes is $371,000. I know that Stanford won’t consider me for financial aid because of those factors.</p>

<p>All 3 of my siblings also desire to go through medschool. Stanford costs around $55,000 per year, including room and board. My undergrad will take about 4 years, and medical school will take another 4 years. That’s $440,000 just on college for ONE child. Multiply that by four children, and you get $1,760,000. Even someone who makes $300,000+ is not going to be able to pay off all of that without debt. </p>

<p>I have received some scholarships (altogether about $7,000), but that’ll barely make a dent in it. Student loans are a possibility, but the debt that will undoubtedly pile up and screw us over scares me. I don’t want to necessarily lie on the financial aid forms, rather, just stretch the truth. On the form, I plan on taking my parent’s income and subtracting the frills and whistles. For example, my dad makes about $100,000 or so extra in bonuses. If I subtract his sporadic bonuses from his income, after taxes I can say he makes $270,000 a year, which barely meets the financial aid barrier at Stanford. </p>

<p>My parents always say that I should always go for my dreams, at no cost. But, I don’t want them to live off of mustard sandwiches for the rest of their lives because I picked an expensive college. So is it morally okay to “stretch the truth” for a grant? Or should I just scrap the whole idea and go to a community college? </p>

<p>Thanks so much!</p>

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<p>There’s no way that you’ll get FA. There’s no way to stretch this story to make you eligible.</p>

<p>So, if you’re concerned about your parents then do one/some of the following (and have your siblings do likewise)…</p>

<p>1) Instead of going to Stanford, go somewhere that will give you big merit. With your stats, you can go to a good college and have a good chunk covered through merit money. Virtually any good college can prepare you for med school.</p>

<p>2) Pay for some/all of your own med school like most kids do (thru loans) - Go to Stanford for Med School. :)</p>

<p>3) Go to a state public (are you a Calif resident) such as UCB or UCLA (you’d likely get admitted). It’s much cheaper than Stanford for residents.</p>

<p>If you don’t live in Calif, what is your state flagship? </p>

<p>You and your sibs don’t need to go to community college. You have options. Any of the above will save your parents some big bucks.</p>

<p>BTW…instead of your parents insisting that 4 “doctor to be” children “follow their dreams,” I suggest that they sit down and do some math. But, maybe they’ll surprise you and tell you that they don’t need to pay out of current income because they have college funds for you all. :slight_smile: Then, Stanford can be your dream again. :)</p>

<p>After all, since your dad makes so much money, it’s doubtful that he hasn’t been investing and saving for retirement and his kids’ college.</p>

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<p>I really hope OP is a ■■■■■. What is it with people who think that my tax dollars should go toward financial aid for them when their parents earn nearly 3/4 of a million dollars a year? And then they want to lie about it – oh, excuse me, “stretch the truth”. Meanwhile, I’m the one eating mustard sandwiches after scrimping to put my own 2 kids through undergrad with no federal aid. </p>

<p>Gimme a break…</p>

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<p>Thanks, mom2collegekids. </p>

<p>Yeah, you’re right, the aid thing is quite the impossible. USC is a big possibility for my undergrad. I might also try Pomona. </p>

<p>Thanks again! (:</p>

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<p>OP, the numbers you submit have to match your parents tax returns exactly. You will get audited (verified) at some point. Lying about the numbers is a felony. You could lie and reduce your parent’s income by >50% and you still would not get merit based aid. </p>

<p>Go to a cheaper school and/or one that gives you substantial merit awards. And be honest…</p>

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<p>Colleges will generally require documentation in the form of tax returns before giving out any financial aid. Hedging on the forms now won’t get you anything but disappointment down the road.</p>

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<p>patsmom, I don’t think she’s looking for any of your tax dollars in federal aid and she clearly wouldn’t qualify for anything other than Stafford loans which are avaiable regardless of income. She’s looking for institutional funding which comes from the school’s endowments.</p>

<p>OP, definitely apply to some schools with good merit aid! With your stats, it’s quite possible to cover a large portion, perhaps even all, of your undergrad expenses at a high-quality school. Good luck!</p>

<p>Btw, yes, it’s morally wrong, illegal, and also very difficult to “stretch the truth” when reporting financial data. Schools will usually require you and your parents to sign statements that the info you’re providing is true and correct. They often require copies of tax returns as well, so his bonuses will be reflected in his income. Not worth lying about and you won’t like the way it makes you feel.</p>

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<p>USC is a good idea. They may give you big merit. I don’t know if Pomona gives big merit, but Santa Clara might (if they don’t ask for a FAFSA for consideration). </p>

<p>I’m sure that there are other schools on the west side of the country that would give you big merit.</p>

<p>BTW…are you a likely National Merit Finalist or National Achievement Finalist? What was your PSAT? </p>

<p>I know that USC gives half tuition scholarships to NMFs (maybe to NAs, too). That would save your parents about $80k. But, I think you’d also be a strong contender for one of their full tuition scholarships, too.</p>

<p>Do you want a big sports school (since you listed Stanford and USC)? If so, be sure to include UCLA and UCB. They might not give you Regents, but they are cheaper.</p>

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</p>

<p>sk8rmom, </p>

<p>I erred in thinking she meant federal aid, but my objection still stands. Financial aid, institutional or otherwise, for people in that income bracket should be out of the question, and to fudge the truth on a federal application form in order to get aid is so wrong that I could hardly believe that she was suggesting it on a public forum.</p>

<p>Merit aid is a different story – her stats are great, she will likely get some outstanding offers, and deservedly so. But that’s not what she was asking about.</p>

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<p>If the student wants to pursue some merit aid scholarships as “back ups”, then she needs to carefully select schools that will give big merit.</p>

<p>On the west coast…</p>

<p>USC
Santa Clara (but they may ask for a FAFSA, not sure)
LMU
Seattle U
UPortland</p>

<p>These are the ones I can think of off-hand.</p>

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</p>

<p>Alas, in a perfect world that might be true and college would be affordable for all! But it’s not, as colleges practice enrollment management for their own benefit. A student with such potential would be prized by many adcoms and donors who support endowments are often very conscious of the prestige/status/rankings of the school they support.</p>

<p>In the OP’s case, the parents have one wage-earner and four kids with grad school plans. I think it’s prudent for them to look for a way to (legally) maximize the aid for their accomplished student(s) if they them to graduate with a reasonable amount of debt. I’m sure the OP’s parents would not go for lying on FA apps and, while perhaps inappropriate, I doubt the OP has much knowledge of what constitues fraud and I can’t get to worked up about kids who ask these questions…better they consider, learn, and firmly reject that course now than end up like the kid from Harvard!</p>

<p>OP, if you’re the eldest, do your parents a favor and have them read up on college financing. The current edition of the book “Paying for College Without Going Broke” would be a very good investment.</p>

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<p>Your parents income is it the $700K range per year…and they can’t afford to send you to college? I guess I don’t understand this. Our income is 1/5th of that and we were full pays at expensive private universities. You need to discuss this with them and see just what they CAN or WILL contribute.</p>

<p>With income in that range, you will not be eligible for needbased financial aid ANYWHERE…Even if all of you were in college at the same time, you would not be eligible. Your family income is in the TIPPY TOP annual incomes in this country. Perhaps your parents don’t understand this.</p>

<p>If your family wants to economize…you might want to consider two options.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Apply to instate universities with honors programs…you might get some merit aid there…and the costs will be more reasonable than at private schools without aid.</p></li>
<li><p>Apply to schools where your stats are at the tippy top of the range…and where you will garner merit aid to offset your cost of attendance.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>I think the student needs to have a financial sit-down with the parents. She may be surprised to find out that they have college funds for each child. She was assuming that they would pay out of current income, but with that income, it’s likely the dad has been investing for awhile. :)</p>

<p>Either way…it’s a rather simple convo to have with the parents.</p>

<p>4 kids…</p>

<p>private school undergrad for each child will cost about $220k-300k+ (including inflation for younger sibs). </p>

<p>So, about 1 million to get them thru private school undergrad.</p>

<p>med school private - about $75k-100k per year. So, about $300k - 400k per child. So, about another 2 million to get them thru private med school.</p>

<p>med school public (Calif). Somewhat less. So, probably about 1.5 million to get the four thru med school. </p>

<p>So, to get these 4 kids thru private undergrrad and private med school, the parents are looking at about 3 million total. Wow.</p>

<p>So, I would think that unless the parents have well-funded college funds, they should be thinking about encouraging some merit scholarship schools for undergrad.</p>

<p>The parents may be assuming that the kids will be paying for their own med schools (thru loans).</p>

<p>If that’s true, then this student should negotiate and ask if she goes to a school that gives big merit (say $100k total or so), would the parents put that amount towards med school. That would be big savings loan-wise. :)</p>

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<p>You’re not stretching the truth you are lying and committing fraud. And it won’t work anyway as the financial figures have to tie in with the tax returns. And the FA forms do not ask for after tax figures. They ask for the AGI which is a before tax figure so all this would not even get you to the cut off for Stanford FA.</p>

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<p>I think the student knows that she can’t go forth with her original question. Now, she’s looking at merit situations - like at USC - to reduce her parents’ costs.</p>

<p>I do think that the parents need to be fully consulted to make sure they have thought this all thru about paying full freight for 4 children thru privates and thru med school. They may not have “run the numbers” since this is their first child to go to college.</p>

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<p>Federal Aid is money that comes out of my pocket (and of course the pockets of millions of other tax payers), some who are living from pay check to pay check. Even for the Stafford unsub loan, there is a cost to tax payers.</p>

<p>Would the OP’s parents be willing to have someone else stretch the truth to get something they were not eligible for? For example would OP’s parents be OK with a car salesman with a $100,000 income claim that they have only a $40,000 income because they excluded $60,000 in bonuses and only the $40,000 was salary? I do not think so. So why would I or anyone else in this forum support that line of reasoning.</p>

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<p>^^^funny that taxpayers should be brought up since the OP’s family is paying about 50% of their income, more than 330K in all, on taxes! Maybe she should “use” some of that by going to her state flagship. If not for undergrad, then for med school. </p>

<p>(and PS, most doctors would tell you it really doesn’t matter where you go…)</p>

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<p><a href=“and%20PS,%20most%20doctors%20would%20tell%20you%20it%20really%20doesn’t%20matter%20where%20you%20go…”>I</a> *</p>

<p>Very true. Not important where you go for undergrad. </p>

<p>My son had foot surgery last Christmas. His surgeon had gone to Duke for med school and the Mayo Clinic for residency/specialty. But, he went to a 3rd tier Florida public for undergrad and it didn’t hurt him a bit.</p>

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</p>

<p>P does not give merit aid and their FA will not be as generous as S.</p>

<p>[Typical</a> Aid: What Can I Expect? - Pomona College](<a href=“http://www.pomona.edu/administration/financial-aid/faqs/typical-aid-packages.aspx]Typical”>http://www.pomona.edu/administration/financial-aid/faqs/typical-aid-packages.aspx)</p>

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<p>Some things to say about this OP:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I’m going to assume it’s truthful even though it has hallmarks of being trollish;</p></li>
<li><p>The answer to the question raised is, YES, it’s horrible to stretch the truth on a FAF and it’s a federal crime so don’t so it;</p></li>
<li><p>I have to think that a highly successful, highly educated pair of parents with an income of $750K has done a few things to avoid eating mustard sandwiches like:</p></li>
</ol>

<p>A.) Starting a retirement plan that already has a six or seven figure balance;
B.) Saved money to plan ahead for college costs;
C.) Put in place sufficient life insurance to guard against the unthinkable; and
D.) Resolved to live a little more frugally during their children’s college years.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>If you received your test scores “today” then I’m guessing you’re a junior who has already amassed “$7,000” in merit aid prior to the start of your senior year. Keep plugging away because an African-American female with 2350 SAT’s and solid grades is a huge catch for any school and you will have options. Further, there are need-blind scholarships for people who have achieved as you have, so keep plugging away.</p></li>
<li><p>Take your education one step at a time. You may elect to forgo medical school for some other pursuit. </p></li>
<li><p>You may decide to borrow money for medical school and pay for it on your own. You may earn money that you decide to contribute to your education.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>7. LISTEN TO YOUR PARENTS!</p>