<p>^
it is absolutely the right of the student to question the teacher in this circumstance and if the substitute reports it, my guess is that the administration or teacher will have a better understanding and acquaintance with the student than the sub does and they will depend upon this understanding to evaluate the situation.</p>
<p>I teach in a large school and a LOT of the subs are NUTS. Everyone knows it.</p>
<p>
Or cupcake could just as easily have said " the question you asked me made me feel very uncomfortable and targeted. I felt it was <<<bullying, racist,=“” harassment,=“” inappropriately=“” personal…=“” pick=“” one=“”>>> and I am going to file a formal complaint with the administration". An equal probability response.</bullying,></p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, then, there you go. You knew one ornery teacher, and so therefore the appropriate response of the OP is to be afraid of the power that the sub might have over her. How ridiculous.</p>
<p>The OP is not an adult, so she is to be excused - but how adults deal with these things is – they approach the person pleasantly after class, ask if they have time to talk, and express how they felt. They do so in a way that indicates “I’m sure you had no ill intent but it made me uncomfortable and I thought yo’d want to know” rather than a way that indicates “you were singling me out because I know you’re a racist jerk who thinks I belong back in Nigeria, don’t you.” </p>
<p>Then - since 9 times out of the 10 - the other person’s intentions were benign - everyone’s consciousness is raised a bit, both sides hear one another, the sub reflects and goes - oh, ok, I didn’t realize it was a big deal, maybe I’d better rethink, tuck that away for future reference - and everyone’s happy.</p>
<p>The abnormal, weird way is to be fearful of the sub, to come out swinging, or to immediately file complaints with everyone in the school administrative hierarchy. Or to pretend that this is an “injury” comparable with the abuses of SOME people in Wall Street or politics.</p>
<p>What world do you live in that a student asking a teacher or a sub, " Why would you ask that?" would end up with a mark on their permanent record? Those days (if they ever existed) are long gone. And EPTR, I know some teachers who are nuts and everyone knows it. Please, stop with these kind of remarks. It does not move the discussion along.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Cobrat, I think you don’t understand that everyone on this board went to high school. I think you think we all went to high school, but you went to HIGH SCHOOL and therefore what you felt / saw / experienced trumps what we felt / saw / experienced.</p>
<p>And if there is even one miniscule iota of logic or sense in that statement about the conforming students of decades ago, its more likely OUR decades than his.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Absolutely NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What on earth? </p>
<p>Do you think HS in the 60s and 70s was like Little House on the Prairie? (The book, not the TV show.)</p>
<p>And exactly how old do you think this sub was? My APUSH teacher from 1971 is now 71 or so and retired. Maybe this guy’s age.</p>
<p>prevailing… obfuscate…insubordination… Its starting to sound like an SAT vocabulary practice list.</p>
<p>*** ETA and the poor OP has left the building, as this has once again become the Cobrat show.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’m not sure how my comment about my experience with substitute teachers is any different from this statement about teachers.</p>
<p>I used to be a substitute. I was not crazy. Nor was I driven by a compulsion to prove to my temporary students how smart, worldly and globally aware I was.</p>
<p>I am a teacher. Still not crazy (well, okay, most days not crazy). But I have come across lots of crazy subs and a few crazy teachers. I even had a few when I was a kid.</p>
<p>My point was, that regardless of whether the student confronted the sub in class or after class, the student would have the benefit of the doubt in the eyes of the teachers and administrators who know her. It is my feeling that children have the right to speak up about the things that make them uncomfortable and if it isn’t done in the perfect adult way…well, that’s okay. Because, you know, they’re kids.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I agree with your approach. I would always approach the person first before going over their head. That’s just common courtesy, and if I were the supervisor, I would have a problem with an employee whose first instinct is to avoid direct communication and who always wants to jump the hierarchy. Of course, there could always be the odd scenario which would be the exception, but in general, I prefer to start with the person with whom I have the conflict rather than running to the boss to report him. In the OP’s case, I didn’t advocate a heated confrontation, simply a calm “why would you ask me that?” or “why do you want to know?” There is ZERO insubordination in that exchange.</p>
<p>^^^
I agree with Nrdsb4. As a teacher, I would “hear” in that reply that I need to reflect on my own motives for asking. I would not think badly of the child.</p>
<p>I have a student who broke her arm recently. Each week when the students come to my class I rotate the tables to be in charge of helping with supplies. Her table was up. When I was assigning jobs I asked her if she felt that she could pass out paper with her broken arm. She answered that she was not HELPLESS and could of course HELP!</p>
<p>I was taken aback by her emotional response, especially since I had asked in, what I thought, was a sensitive and low key way.</p>
<p>My take away in the nano second that I had to even reflect on it was that I had unintentionally hit a nerve, made a note to self and forgot about it. I didn’t think she was intentionally rude or confrontational in her response, even though it was a bit over the top.</p>
<p>I’m shocked at the degree of denial and virulent outrage by ZM, Nrdsb4, Jym626, etc at my pointing out that teachers, like other human beings in positions of some responsibility and power have the possible capability of acting wrongfully or even criminally in ways which bring disrepute upon themselves and their profession along with harming students they were entrusted to supervise.</p>
<p>There are countless news reports which bear that out. Just google it. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That would be the best case scenario. However, as demonstrated even on this thread, there’s been an inclination, mostly by those who are in deep denial as demonstrated above to insist the older sub’s “good intentions” haven’t been considered enough despite OP’s prior posts and how OP may have been “mistaken”, “oversensitive”, and otherwise implying her feelings the sub’s actions and behavior were mistaken. </p>
<p>I find this not only disturbing in the levels of invalidation for the OP, but puzzling in its level of naivete as illustrated here:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yep…denial. And it’s not just a river in Egypt.</p>
<p>“my pointing out that teachers, like other human beings in positions of some responsibility and power have the possible capability of acting wrongfully or even criminally in ways which bring disrepute upon themselves and their profession along with harming students they were entrusted to supervise.”</p>
<p>Do you even read your own posts? That isn’t what you said by any stretch of the imagination.</p>
<p>Cobrat, my remark was aimed at EPTR about knowing crazy subs. It had nothing to do with you. EPTR, sorry about that. This was probably an overreaction on my part. I’m just tired of hearing how crazy subs are when there are many good people subbing and for little monetary reward. I think it is time for this conversation to go away.</p>
<p>Shocked? Virulent outrage?? Please. More hyperbole or more SAT vocab, or both?</p>
<p>Please read more carefully. No one said there werent bad teachers or subs. There are. As many have said. But the over the top outrage that you spew is gonna make me lose the halloween candy that has been sneaking its way into my mouth. Really. Its beyond ridiculous. What is clearly deep denial and most disturbing is your complete inability to hear what others are saying. Quite amazing. There are other equally valid thoughts, comments and opinions besides yours. Insulting and dismissing them doesn’t make yours any more valid. It makes you look painfully myopic.</p>
<p>You didnt say there were some bad teachers- you went over the top with statements such as “there are so many I lost count”. This is utterly absurd and makes you lose all credibility.</p>
<p>Now can we PLEASE get back to topic. Cobrat. For the umpteth time, this thread is NOT about YOU and your ridiculous overgeneralizations.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>cobrat,</p>
<p>The problem is, even if the sub is a raging racist, there is no thought police in this country. He cannot be disciplined for asking a benign question, even if he has malicious intent in asking it. Not only is there no crime in <em>being</em> a racist so long as one does not act upon it, the sub also has his own 1st Amendment rights. The public school cannot punish him for his speech if that speech does not violate the law. </p>
<p>Sometimes there is no remedy for s*itty behavior.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>News reports are news because they are exceptions from the rule, or noteworthy in some way. “Sub takes over class temporarily, does competent job in executing lesson plan and students and teachers are all content with the situation” isn’t a news story.</p>
<p>Cobrat, you have some REAL fears of authority that cause you to vastly overstate the “powers” that some people and vastly understate the ability of normal people to pleasantly settle disputes and differences. You’re always in this world where people scheme, look askance at others, cause trouble, offer unasked for opinions - and so you conflate everyday situations with Wall Street shenanigans, political situations, or the Cultural Revolution. Someone said something that was probably thoughtless or inappropriate. You can treat it like it’s a crime, or you can gently call their attention to it. You have SUCH fears of reprisal in your life. No wonder you do that whole “well, wouldn’t it be funny to raid their parties / drink their wine” schtick. It’s odd how you make “authority” such a big thing in your life, and resent it so. The sub isn’t an “authority” other than in the narrowest sense that he’s running that classroom in the moment. He’s not a despot, and he has little to no power over the OP’s life.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes. HAVE THE POTENTIAL. But you always assume the worst in people’s motives. Always, always, always. You gave no credence to the possibility that it was just a somewhat-thoughtless-but-not-malicious remark. You took it immediately to your own experiences, where one or two incidents have marred you For Life, and you took it immediately to a “best not say anything because the sub might ruin your life forever.” It’s odd. Why don’t you ever give people the benefit of the doubt?</p>