It has been yrs since I have posted on CC. (The last time I was active was when our now 25 yod was in 12th.)
Our youngest dd is currently an 8th grader. She is pretty convinced she wants to pursue violin performance. Music is a pursuit that we know nothing about. We have been talking to her about ways to make a career with music. She is also singer. One thing we have been tossing around is a music studio where she could teach both violin and voice to either supplement her income or as a default if she can’t actually make a living via performance. (Based on my research, that seems a very likely scenario for a violinist.) However, she lives and breathes music and is quite talented, so we don’t want to completely dissuade her, either.
So, we are wondering is it even possible to pursue both violin performance and voice simultaneously? If so, what sorts of schools should we start paying attention to? (And cost is a huge factor for us. Academically, she should be competitive if she can manage to maintain her current progression on top of the many hrs of violin practice she does daily. So academic merit might be an option if music scholarships aren’t.)
At this point, is she studying voice with anyone (there are voice teachers who do specialize on younger singers). I would do that. Then as time goes on, evaluate what she is doing. And where her interests lie.
I am really just interested in understanding if pursuing both is even compatible. For example, physics and math or multiple foreign languages like her siblings pursued.
I think it’s not going to be easy to do both. But reach out to some music departments at some point and ask. And see what your violin and voice teachers say. I’m sure they will have an opinion.
Pursuit of two simultaneous music performance degrees is highly unusual, but not completely unheard of.
The candidate would need to be accepted into both studios via audition and while some coursework would overlap, a significant number of classes, lessons, studio work, ensembles will not. So this route would absolutely take longer than the usual 4 years.
However, many music performance students pursue another instrument/area during their program. I know several who have their degree on one woodwind instrument for example and have become highly proficient on all other wind instruments. They are in great demand for pit orchestras and studio work.
As your daughter gets closer to applying and auditioning for programs, the path will become more clear. If she is still very set on “pursuing” both, she may want to choose one as her primary instrument but research programs that allow her to continue the other to whatever degree is possible and fulfills her needs. Many will accommodate and even encourage lessons and ensemble opportunities on the second.
I’m just going to throw out a few random thoughts. I have 2 kids that did/have done music in college. Both were vocalists and instrumentalists. They both did/are doing vocal in college. But both had a “first instrument” they started very young and did through high school to an advanced level. One was taking 4 sets of lessons at one point.
Since you’re asking directly if you can do 2 seperate music performance degrees in 2 discplines at once (I think), I would say some programs may allow this but it really doesn’t make a lot of sense. If you look at the course sequencing and requirements for a vocal and an instrumental BM performance degree, that would be very difficult in many programs. 2 instruments may be easier. But I also don’t think there is a huge advantage to having 2 performance degrees. Without droning on about our experiences, some teachers especially in undergrad focused, competitive programs would not be especially excited about their students splitting their time when they need to fill their ensembles, etc. Performance programs, especially at SOM’s and conservatories will tupically have pretty deep performance expectations for their musicians/vocalists. That said, a BA program at a liberal arts college with a strong music program might be a whole lot more flexible.
Now that said, a violin student could possibly audition for voice lessons and sing in choir in some programs and that would be something to ask about. Or vice versa with a vocal student. My kid that recently graduated did vocal. But found a number ways to use and continue to develop his instrumental skills on campus. His highest impact music experience on campus was not a required performance obligation and was completely non-traditional. My college freshman was so ready to give up her first instrument. And only survived 6 weeks without that instrument on campus and is performing with it this term lol. Seeking out more flexible rather than less flexible programs might be better. Or a program that leans a little more on grad students might have amazing faculty and opportunities. But allow some more flexiblity for performance obligations for their undergrads. These are really good questions to ask in a couple years when you get serious about possible paths. My musical kids were all over the place on path until like junior year.
And just an aside, we know someone a bit older than my kids who was an instrumentalist and a vocalist in high school. This student did a undergrad performance degree in the instrument for undergrad degree in a flexible program while taking voice and doing some voice related performance, etc. And then did a MM in vocal in a conservatory. Is professionally definitely using both in a wide variety of ways, graduated a number of years back. So another example of growing broadly as a musician. I do think there are a number of possible paths for multi-interested musicians.
Thanks for the replies. They are very helpful. The idea of voice lessons and ensembles seems more realistic for continuing to develop those skills.
I was reading through the how do musicians make a living thread. I can see her taking many of those types of paths. She already plays for weddings. She hopes to start singing for weddings, too.
This is just scary territory for us bc we don’t have a clue about music at all.
In planning in general, would it be beneficial to complete most gen eds through dual enrollment? We homeschool, so we have a lot of flexibility. She is taking all high school courses this yr as an 8th grader (and took alg 1 last yr). Our kids have never taken a lot of gen ed courses through DE, only very selective courses (like our physicsgeek dual enrolled for math and physics and completed basically a minor in both during high school. Other than AP chem, he did all of his other coursework at home.) But, this dd could easily start dual enrolling in 10th and over 3 yrs complete the equivalent of most schools’ core gen eds. That is sort of the opposite of the type of homeschooler I am (which is to really focus on individualized courses that challenge them differently than a standard classroom course), but with music being hrs of daily commitment, maybe should re-evaluate that as well and consider DE more seriously. ??
I’m not sure it matters how this student completes their high school graduation requirements. The key element for performance majors is the audition. Yes, some university programs do require academic acceptance also, but many don’t. And conservatories are very lenient in terms of academic performance…it’s really all about your audition.
I would speak to the voice and violin teachers, but maybe wait a year. Perhaps some of this will tease out.
I do know, there are some amazing church choirs in Boston and NYC that would be fabulous for a singer to be in!
I have no idea if this would be allowed for 2 music performance areas, but you could research it or even call to ask. My oldest daughter attended IU Jacobs and completed a BSOF degree (Bachelors of Science with an Outside Field). Her BS was Voice and her OF was History. The degree was explained like a tree–a trunk with all the gen eds shared and two branches with the required major courses for each specific area. A dual degree on the other hand would be like 2 separate trees with 2 separate sets of gen eds. My daughter was told she could go to grad school in either area after completing the BSOF–it covers all required courses for each major.
My son wanted to do this (voice and cello in his case). He actually auditioned and was accepted on both instruments at all the schools he applied to. It complicated the application and audition process. The bigger trouble comes when they’re actually in college and the required choir and the required orchestra rehearse at the same time. This is the case everywhere.
My son was able to study both instruments but not fully participate in both. Voice ended up as his primary instrument. He took lessons on cello as a secondary instrument for two years (and could have continued but chose not to), and accompanied some choirs and other ensembles on cello and had other playing opportunities, but he was only able to play in an orchestra for one semester, and that was because of a scheduling change during the pandemic that would not normally have been a possibility at all. Just trying to find time to practice two instruments is very tough. Completing two performance degrees would have taken a lot of extra semesters, The ensembles are required every semester for both degrees. Having geneds taken care of with dual enrollment won’t help with these types of scheduling conflicts. It would help with other things and I highly recommend that.
To what degree you can pursue two instruments is going to depend greatly on the school. If you see a way to audition on more than one instrument in the application process without having to ask, that’s a positive.
My son attended University of North Texas. He had both academic and music scholarships and those came with an out of state tuition waiver, so great affordability. He got a great music education (just graduated) and would choose it again.
Luther College (IA) is another school that allows and encourages multiple instruments and has a strong music program and good financial aid/scholarships.
My kids were technically homeschooled and dual enrolled heavily in high school. We didn’t specifically do it to cover gen eds. We had them chose classes to fulfill graduation and college admissions requirements across a range of subjects. BUT both of them did well with covering quite a few gen eds that rolled over to their school of choice. My oldest was able to complete double degree in 4 years thanks to dual enrollment. My youngest who went into the music process with a very single minded music performance direction just realized she could get through a music business degree in 4 years with the BM with a little creative scheduling and flexiblity. She actually took the initiative to ask for a review to get more credits pulled over and it worked.
So for a kid that wanted to do vocal on the side, that might be a way to fit in some diction/language classes, etc. I do think it would be hard to plan this far in advance. In a few years if this is still the preferred direction, it might be easier to target programs that might be more flexible with taking outside credits. For example, both my kids were accepted to a LAC with a bachelor of music program, and that school would only take up to a semester and a half worth of credits at the maximum and there are some schools that are that way. My kids didn’t apply to stand alone conservatories so I can’t comment on that side.
The music business double seems like a very practical addition. I suspect understanding basic business and accounting practices as an entrepreneur is incredibly helpful. I suspect some marketing background would be helpful, too. I hadn’t really considered that approach. Thank you for sharing your dd’s path.
I doubt stand alone conservatories will be financially feasible. I have just started researching costs, schools, etc. She is the youngest of 8, so we have been through the college app process numerous times. But, after reading College Prep for Musicians, I am aware that this is a much different process. We just switched violin teachers to one who has taken students to conservatories and is fully aware of the process. I am definitely going to be relying on his guidance. But, I know our finances, so that is where I am going to have to dig in and start understanding. Knowing the focus most likely just needs to be on violin vs both will help me research the process more easily.
Don’t rule this out completely. There can be significant merit money offered if the applicant performs at a high level in comparison to others for a given studio.
My son worked with his private teacher to determine which programs (some conservatory and some college based) he would have the best chance of acceptance with good merit scholarship. He was by far my lowest cost college kid. Ended up at a conservatory.
Yes - my spouse and I were pretty excited about this! Even if she doesn’t complete the full degree having a handfull of practical business classes seems really wise for a performance kid. Not to mention, a lot of people we know who do have performing degrees work in admin in arts based orgs, small non-profits, or are working themselves as independant contractors. Also, that degree requires an internship as well so I hope she has the opportunity to get through that part and work with an organization for a summer.
We were also shooting for merit money and getting through undergrad debt free without breaking the bank. That can be hard to figure out. There is a lot of good ongoing info on this board and asking your teacher, other music parents, ensemble directors, etc can be helpful with that.
My DD is a VP major (BM degree) at Bard College Conservatory of Music. Bard Conservatory has a 5-year double degree program for their undergraduate conservatory musicians (BM in their instrument plus a BA with the college). Bard College (the College, not the Conservatory) offers a BA music degree. I think it would be possible for your daughter to pursue a BM in one instrument (Conservatory) and a BA in the other (College). Your DD would have to successfully audition for the Conservatory degree, but the Bard College music BA is non-audition (she would only have to audition in one instrument). My DD is double majoring in VP (Conservatory) and dance (BA).
Let me know if you have any questions - feel free to DM me!
I think young people don’t have much of an idea of college or careers and want to come into college wanting to major in 2 or 3 things because they like it in High School. But to be accepted into a performance major they have to be very very good at one thing…it may not be practical being very very good at another. Will she have time to be in an orchestra and choir in HS? Will you be able to pay for violin and voice lessons? Also when you are looking for a job, is there jobs that value two majors?
Although I have to say our musical director at church does intruments and voice… we have a choir, hand bell choir, and flute ensemble at church and she plays with the rock band. She also is an adjunct professor at the local community college and also does private lessons.
So this is a case where she basically teaches music in all areas and has put together a career for herself.
Hi - I’m a Bard Conservatory parent from long ago now but at that time they would not allow the second degree outside of the conservatory to be in music. It was a hard and fast rule. I suspect that still may be the case.
I think the real question is why the two performance degrees are needed - if it’s only for an idea of how one may make a living later - rather than the student cannot imagine not pursuing both an instrument and voice at the deepest possible level - than I think there might be many more options open to that student than seem immediately obvious.