Is it time to get rid of TIPPING in America?

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2015/10/keep-your-change

Why don’t restaurants/bars just pay their staff more? Restaurants in other countries either pay their staff more, or there’s a service charge added to the bill.

And what’s with taxi drivers expecting a tip? Are they going to get me to me destination any faster/safer if not tipped?

Lots of occupations don’t have tipping, and the staff still perform professionally (e.g., plumbers)

I don’t know what the answer is, but when we were in Europe we noticed that the service in restaurants was MUCH slower. The wait staff just seemed to disappear for long periods of time. And it took forever to get the attention of a waiter to even ask for the bill (we ALWAYS had to ask), and then the long wait for them to bring the bill, come over to collect the money, etc. I figured it was because they weren’t getting any tips, so there was no incentive to turn the table over quickly. It was actually easier for them, i.e. less work, if we sat there for a long period of time.

I can’t generalize to all of Europe, but the same thing happened to us every time in 4 different countries.

I think Danny Meyer has the right idea. Let’s get rid of tipping. It’s not the norm in Europe and I’ve had excellent service there. It’s up to management to train and incentivize their workforce to provide quality service, like other industries, not the diner. Tipping can also set up a back of the house/front of the house imbalance.

I am so tired of seeing the tip jars for counter service. Back in the day, you rarely saw that. I know I am sounding like an old, grumpy person. :slight_smile:

Was out west on a trip recently. A lot of smaller restaurants out there have payment on a tablet device, something I don’t encounter often in my area. We had a very nice dinner with good service at a hip but not fancy place - not wow stellar but good and a nice chat with the server. The 3 choices given on the tablet for tip were preset at 17%, 21%, and 29%. (You could also enter your own dollar amount but there were preset buttons at those levels.) It put a slight dampener on the end of the evening as we felt manipulated. We wanted to leave a little more than 20% but 29%?!? Seemed presumptuous.

Re: slow European service. When Europeans go out to eat, they go out to relax, talk, and enjoy the evening. A typical dinner can last 2-3 hours, not the 45-60 minutes typically allocated here in the US (the number given to us by one restaurant manager when they royally screwed up and set it to 15 min in their computer!).

There are a number of restaurants in LA and SF that have gone to the “service included” model, essentially raising prices by 20%. While I generally like that approach, one unexpected bummer has been that sales tax is calculated AFTER the service is included. So now we essentially pay sales tax on the tip.

Agree that the “slowness” in Europe is a cultural difference, not a difference in quality of service. It would be considered rude in Europe to try to rush you and turn your table over quickly. The dinner itself is the experience. You’ll see the same “slower” service if dining at high end restaurants in the USA - dinner will take 2 hours, sometimes even 3-4 hours.

I get irrationally infuriated when cabs these days give a choice of prepopulated tips that range from 25 to 30%. A couple of times lately the levels of precalculated tips were 25%, 27% and 30%. While I almost always tip 20%, it is my practice when presented with a choice of ludicrous pre-calculated tips to go down to 15%. i’ve had taxi drivers practically spit on me when I’ve done that even though 15% is still a perfectly reasonable tip. Just another reason to take Uber!

Dinner in the dining room on our recent cruise took 2 hours. It was part of the luxury.

We had an interesting experience dining with a Swedish guest. Our waiter reached to grab my empty dinner plate while she was still eating her salmon. She dropped her silverware and told the waiter that it was terribly rude to begin clearing out the table while someone was still eating, because it disrupted the conversation! In Sweden, the waiter magically appears when the last guest puts their silverware on the plate! :slight_smile: Then all plates get taken away, and the dessert menus get brought out. And it was also rude to pile the plates up - plates have to be taken 2-4 at a time (one in each hand or on the arm), not in ugly stacks. :slight_smile: Lol.

From the perspective of servers: not without a lot of thought. Why?

  1. Don't confuse people asking to eliminate the exception to the minimum wage for waitstaff with "tipping". And don't put the two together. In most states, waitstaff aren't paid much as a base wage and many people want to eliminate that exception. If you read the articles/op-eds in favor of "no tipping", almost all of them confuse the two separate issues.
  2. Danny Meyer and the handful of other high-end places that eliminate tipping do that because they charge so much they can afford to pay their waitstaff, who are career servers, much more than minimum wage and provide benefits AND they want to protect their waitstaff's earnings from being dinged by the bleepheads who tip $10 on an $800 bill. This is important to these restaurants: they demand a lot from their staff and truly want/need to retain them and the last thing they want is either disgruntled staff or bad interactions with customers. At a Danny Meyer high-end restaurant - or some others I know of - they track every detail about your ordering and payment. They know that you are a bad tipper: they track it. But they don't want the staff treating those customers like dirt because of that. And they also know that customers have no clue how tips are divided, so when a bleephead leaves $20 on a $600 check, that cuts the pay for every person in the serving crew.
  3. This can't be about cheapness, meaning a way to reduce your costs of eating out. If servers make "minimum wage" and aren't tipped, that would be a huge disincentive for people to work in the food business. Period. I know a lot of servers. They make a living, not a can't scrape by/eating beans 7 days a week minimum wage existence.
  4. Many restaurants fear adding service charges. Many barely get by now and they don't want to lose the business of the people who tip 10% or even less. And if they add a 10% service charge, that's getting back to saying "pay cut". I don't see how that helps the people this idea is supposed to help, meaning those at the lower end of the food service business, those who make the least from serving.
  5. I think servers in general would be happy if restaurants added a real service charge AND they actually got that money. Tips often don't get to the servers now: it's grabbed by management illegally, taken to pay for things like cleaning costs for uniforms, etc. And servers fear that restaurants might take this money and share it out to people who aren't now allowed to be "tipped", meaning a pay cut for them. There is truth that kitchen staff is underpaid but that's because tipping isn't part of the restaurant's expense budget. Food is. Preparing the food is. Tipping is not. Bring it into the expense line and the odds the money goes to servers, with or without legal protection, is low, meaning the change might be to increase pay for kitchen staff while reducing it for waitstaff. Some may like that but that's not the same as saying people need living wages.
  6. I've mentioned bad tippers 3 times. I want to be clear because this is important: restaurants need to sell meals. They keep their expenses to a certain percentage of the cost of the meal. A person who tips nothing at all - a typical "trick" is to walk away "by mistake" with the charge slip - still pays the restaurant for the actual meal because the charge card was run. The serving staff takes the hit. At the high end, the restaurant needs to keep its waitstaff happy: these are career professionals and the restaurant recognizes that paying them well is important to its success. As you move down the $$ ladder, it matter more and more to the restaurant that they sell that particular meal even if the diner is a terrible tipper. They need to cover their costs.

My daughter worked as a server this past summer. She made $2.13 an hour, plus tips. She worked for a chain restaurant that recorded all tips, so there was no problem with them making up the difference to minimum wage if she didn’t get sufficient tips to make minimum wage. With a mom and pop restaurant, it might be a lot tougher for a waiter to ask for that difference. There are segments of the population that don’t tip, or tip by rounding the bill up to the nearest dollar. My daughter usually knew who they were before they were even seated. On days when few of those people ended up in her section, she made more than minimum wage, and so would support the tipping system. On other days, though, she could work very hard for not much reward. I know people who have worked in resort areas with a lot of foreign customers and they often were not tipped or were way under-tipped because those customers didn’t understand our tipping system.

Bottom line, I’d like to get away from tipping. I’m not worried about poor service - there are plenty of people who work in jobs where there is no tipping and do a good job because it’s the right thing to do.

@Lergnom

Or the restaurants could just pay their staff a living wage, like they do in every other country in the world.

If US states passed a law prohibiting restaurants from paying their staff sub-min wage, then all restaurants would have to raise their prices at the same time.

And don’t even get me started on hotel bellmen expecting 2 bucks a bag to wheel a bag up an elevator to my room.

“Agree that the “slowness” in Europe is a cultural difference”

Right. There’s no tipping in Japan, but the superb customer service will blow any American’s mind. This applies not just to restaurants and taxis but to pretty much any store, hotel, or attraction.

in Japan, I tried a few times rounding up the meal bill and leaving the remainder for the waiter. Each time the waiter refused and some even seemed offended.

True. I don’t know if it’s still the case. In France, they expect to use the table just once in the evening.

Nothing worse than dining with Australians while in the US. They just cannot tip. At all. And end up spoiling the evening having long bitter arguments with the waitperson and manager.

@benreb In Europe it is considered rude for the waitstaff to bring the check until explicitly asked to do so. It would be seen as an attempt to rush you through your meal.

You may also have experienced that they leave empty plates sitting on the table longer than in the US. (sometimes in the US it feels like you’ve barely gotten that last fork full in your mouth and the plate gets yanked out from underneath you). Also in Europe even the most lowly of sit down places will replace your silverware after the salad or such eaten before the main course. They wouldn’t consider asking you to 'hang on to that’y for the next course. And no, tipping is not a cultural norm.

The economics of tipping is a pretty well-researched area by this point. It’s pretty fascinating if you’re into that sort of thing. It boils down to more of a social norm that we feel pressured into than anything that has to do with economics and wages.

In most countries in Europe tips are given for exceptional service. Just normal service gets nothing (but they get paid more any way. UK minimum wage is something like £6.70 an hour, which is around $10 US). Also, if you add a tip onto a payment by card, it’s unlikely much if anything will go to the server. That all goes to the owner. If you leave a tip in cash in many places that will be divided between all staff including kitchen staff.

In many countries leaving a tip is considered rude so do be careful. All those waiters you thought were slow are at home telling tales of rude Americans who yelled at them (you’re all so loud and have no clue). There are big cultural differences surrounding eating out.

I try to avoid eating out in the US because it’s almost impossible to budget for. So many hidden costs of taxes and then tips. The price paid ends up being at least 40% more than the menu price. It’s really expensive. I give up. Let’s go to McDonald’s drive through.

Don’t get me wrong. We loved our time in Europe and had some great dining experiences. The time factor for meals was just something we had to learn to factor in when we were trying to get to other places. We were there on vacation and did indeed sit and enjoy the experience and make it an evening out. I do wish we had known about having to ask for the check before we got there though. We would have known what to do for the first couple of meals :slight_smile: