<p>I’m not sure if I should pick a school that I’m overqualified for so I can get better grades (and a better chance of getting into med school). For example, I have a very good chance of getting into UCLA and Berkeley, but at these schools I fear I’ll get a low GPA; however, I am considering Davis or Irvine over those because (and I don’t want to sound elitist or arrogant) I will probably do better than the average kid at those schools. </p>
<p>Also, I’m applying to the following private schools: Brown, Columbia, Cornell, JHU, NYU, Northwestern, Stanford, UChicago, UPenn, USC, and Yale. Which one of these schools would be the best for med school admittance?</p>
<p>* I am considering Davis or Irvine over those because (and I don’t want to sound elitist or arrogant) I will probably do better than the average kid at those schools. </p>
<p>*</p>
<p>The “average kid” at those schools will not likely be in your pre-med classes or your major’s classes (if you’re in a challenging major). People often make that mistake. They look at the middle quartiles of various schools and assume that those kids will be in your classes.</p>
<p>My kids go/went to a mid-tier flagship. They both are/were in STEM majors (one is pre-med). The “average kid” at their school is/was not in their classes.</p>
<p>Pre-med pre-reqs are difficult at all good schools.</p>
<p>No real answer, but a thought: the average gpa at Cal and ULCA is higher than at Irvine and Davis. Thus, while the competition is definitely higher, Cal and UCLA award more A’s. How that pans out for you personally, is anyone’s guess. But if you earn a Regent’s at a lower-ranked UC, you earn first dibs for on-campus research, which also means, hopefully, close interaction with profs to obtain a glowing rec – a big plus for med school.</p>
<p>Of the privates that you list, Brown, with the highest mean gpa in the land, is the no-brainer for the pure gpa play. But that is just one aspect of your app and other colleges might be better suited for you, including social environment.</p>
<p>An individual’s “best” school could be different from another person’s best school.</p>
<p>As a rule of thumb, if your academic capability is among the top 20-30% of one of the majors which are populated with premeds (e.g., biology, biochem, maybe a selected few “more rigorous” humanity/liberal-art-ish majors like English or Philosophy?), that school may be a good fit for you, academically speaking.</p>
<p>Even if they know with certainty that such is true, there is absolutely no evidence that med schools care. And of course, the mcat is the equalizer. The average Princeton premed will likely score much higher than the average Rutgers premed. (Princeton selects its class for excellent test taking ability.)</p>
<p>btw, not only is there is zero evidence that law schools care, there is plenty of evidence that indicates a Rutgers A student will beat a Princeton B student every time – assuming same lsat.</p>
<p>Bluebayou, can you please produce such evidence? My gut actually believes what you’re saying regarding same LSAT different GPA, but I definitely don’t believe that the evidence is as ample as you’re indicating.</p>
My version is a little different. Go to the best school for you that you can get into and afford knowing full well that medical school is expensive and FA is weak at all but a very few medical schools. </p>
<p>BTW, I am of the opinion (espoused by a few on the board) that a few Top UG’s (maybe as many as ten) are worth as much as .3 GPA points (which translates to 3 LizzyM points). There may be some more Top UG’s that are worth less than that. IMO, there may be some schools that are effectively worth less than the stated GPA, too. But don’t overstate this effect. IMO, a 4.0 from Directional State U is still better than a 2.9 from HYPS. </p>
<p>I still conclude that, even after the admittedly large selection bias is removed, Top Med Schools still prefer Top UG grads who performed well in UG. The representation of Top UG grads at the Top Med Schools is just staggering.</p>
<p>You should go to UG that matches your personality and wide range of interests the best and forget about Med. School for a bit while enjoying your time there. One thing to keep in mind though is to get as high GPA as possible, which is NOT the goal strictly for Med. School, but general goal, as it is not worth to go to UG for 4 years and not work hard there no matter what is your final goal.</p>
<p>Someone told me about a doctor who apparently has dedicated her career to research college admissions and academia and who has also developed a very profitable consulting business: Ivy League Admissions - Medical School (Nancy Nolan). On her Best Tips to Gain Admittance, the number ONE is Attend the best college you can and get the highest grades possible</p>
<p>But there are average students in these classes at least to begin with. Our local high school produces many average students and quite a few of them think they are going Pre-Med or Engineering. I had one about a month ago who told me she was going Pre-Med. When I asked what schools she was looking at she told me a handful of lower level schools, our state flagship, and Princeton. Impressed with the Ivy thoughts I asked her SAT score. 1540 (all three sections). Do you think she’s going to get into Princeton? I don’t. However, she has a good chance at getting into the lower level schools she was considering and possibly our state flagship. Wherever she goes, she’ll be starting in the Pre-Med classes. How long she lasts will be another issue. In the lower level schools that match her stats she could last quite a while and potentially be successful.</p>
<p>There are others like her coming from our school (I could detail out 4 right now just from this year’s graduating class, but those aren’t looking at Ivies to start with). Then multiply that times however many average (or slightly below average in our case) public schools are out there in each state. These students are going to college, but not top level schools as they can’t get into those.</p>
<p>Average people are capable to go to Meidicine and engineering, but unfortunately not after american k -12. These fields do not require to be brilliant, they require certain background in math/science. In some other countries, midicine and engineering are ones of the most popular UG fields of study with very low falling out rate. However, kids have to have sufficient math/science background for UG science and engineering classes.</p>
<p>The problem is that I haven’t seen any way to remove selection bias with published data. By definition, “Top UG’s” are comprised (nearly solely) of excellent test-takers. According to an aamc survey, the mcat score was the #1 criteria for obtaining an interview, followed closely by sgpa. (One has to interview before one can obtain an offer of admission.) Thus, it should be of zero surprise that the, “The representation of Top UG grads at the Top Med Schools is just staggering.” (Top UG students, on average, have top test scores and get first dibs on interviews.)</p>
<p>That being said, academia is full of prestige-conscious folks. No doubt that a 3.5+ from HYP is mighty attractive (for multiple reasons, including wealth and geography), even over a 3.8 from Directional State U.</p>
<p>*The “average kid” at those schools will not likely be in your pre-med classes or your major’s classes (if you’re in a challenging major). People often make that mistake. They look at the middle quartiles of various schools and assume that those kids will be in your classes. </p>
<hr>
<p>But there are average students in these classes at least to begin with. Our local high school produces many average students and quite a few of them think they are going Pre-Med or Engineering. I had one about a month ago who told me she was going Pre-Med. When I asked what schools she was looking at she told me a handful of lower level schools, our state flagship, and Princeton. Impressed with the Ivy thoughts I asked her **SAT score. 1540 (all three sections). **Do you think she’s going to get into Princeton? I don’t. However, she has a good chance at getting into the lower level schools **she was considering and possibly our state flagship. Wherever she goes, she’ll be starting in the Pre-Med classes. How long she lasts will be another issue. In the lower level schools that match her stats she could last quite a while **and potentially be successful.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>Someone with those stats will likely either be rejected at her flagship or last one semester in pre-med. Those kids are not the ones that will be in your OChem classes and likely not even in your Gen Chem classes. </p>
<p>My son is pre-med at his mid-tier flagship. He knows who the pre-med students are. Those with lowish SAT/ACT scores don’t last long at all. If I were to ask him what the likely ACT/SAT scores were of his “remaining pre-med” classmates, he’d probably say ACT 29-36…SAT 2000+. Anybody with lower scores likely changed career-paths awhile ago.</p>
<p>Yours is not a sound plan…you cannot predict that your will be the star student. Some of the students in your year may not be up to your level…but after one or two intro classes they won’t be your competition.</p>
<p>And some of your competition may be kids who aren’t even on your radar. Some students aren’t on the game the first few years of high school, they are not yet mature or motivated or focused. But in college they decide to turn on their academic jets, so to speak, and they can become fierce competitors. They may be at less-than university instead of higher ranked university because they slacked off in high school…but they now know that they limited their choices coming out of high school and are not going to make that mistake again.</p>
<p>And, of course, there will be a good number of other strong students who are making the same strategic pre-med decisions that your are thinking about.</p>
<p>This isn’t to say that you won’t excel in either of your scenarios. But don’t make blind and naive predictions.</p>
<p>Actually, some of these students do succeed. We have a number of them each year at our high school, and while many do change their mind quickly, some dig in and make it. They may or may not make it into the state flagship, but many of them do make it into lower level schools. One local LAC even gives decent merit aid for 1500+ scores and this school sends a few students each year to Hershey, Drexel and some other state schools (both in state and out - but probably “in” for those going there).</p>
<p>High stats in our school tend to be in the 1800 - 1900 range and some succeed - but not at top level schools as they can’t get into those.</p>
<p>If the OP was wondering where his chances were better, it may very well be better at a lower stat school as there absolutely are kids who are less talented (at testing anyway) there and they will be in the freshmen weeder classes.</p>
<p>Middle son is a high stat kid (by cc standards, not our school standards). Our high school guidance office suggested he go to a low level school with automatic agreements to some med schools. At this point we’ve declined (he didn’t even apply to any) as I want him to have a decent undergrad education and feel he can keep up with others of his caliber. We do have a couple of state safeties with decent merit aid offers that we are seriously considering though - he’s been accepted and offered merit aid already - got Baylor’s offer yesterday (yes, I know Baylor is private, but he has two other state offers). So yes, not all kids at low or mid level schools match the stats of those schools, but some do.</p>
<p>We may have to make the decision of mid level vs high level ourselves soon. Hence - why I’m mainly lurking on threads such as these. I think the $$ is going to win - whichever school offers him the best offer, but we both waver on our thoughts pending the day.</p>
<p>I’m still also contemplating having him put in a last minute application at one of the lower level guarantee schools after having talked with one of our top students at school who is also heading pre-med (with a 28 ACT). I’m betting that guy will do well - no matter where he goes. Fortunately, his parents have the funds to assist him as his scores are rather low for merit aid at some higher (not super high, but reaches) places he’s applied to (and I expect him to get in).</p>
<p>Our school is the source of our lower scores for the most part (poor preparation). We do have some talented kids, and I believe this one will step up in college. I’m not so positive about the 1540 gal. Time will tell. A lower level school will give her a better chance, esp if guys like mine skip them in favor of mid or higher level places.</p>
<p>The fact is, if they do not prep. for ACT, the score will be low, since ACT math is mostly from earlier years that they have to refresh this old for them material. Lots of very good students and lots of very good math students do not recognize this fact and get 30 instead of potential 33 - 35. I believe that prep. is crucial, while some kids just refuse to prep. at all.</p>