Is Mom Crossing the Line Here?

Parent Cafe
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I have been brooding about this thread since yesterday afternoon. I want to be careful – more careful than I was yesterday – to be respectful of the experiences and instincts of the parents of disabled teens and young adults who are posting here. And I know from real life that the issue of how to handle a Down’s Syndrome child’s sexuality is always an area of concern and anxiety for their families. But this rhetorical question really crystalizes the dilemma for me. I am certain that scansmom asked the question because she thought the answer was obvious, but the answer isn’t obvious to me at all, especially as one moves up the cognitive scale from 5 to 9 and beyond.</p>

<p>So here’s my question, which is a real question, not a rhetorical one: I assume that for most people with serious disabilities, there are many things they will never be able to do, or never able to do well. But sex itself may not be one of those things. Sex may be something many of them are capable of performing and enjoying to more or less the same degree as anyone else – maybe more, since there may be fewer claims on their attention or focus. Why should their relative immaturity/disability in other areas mean that they should be denied access to this? (Or if not “denied”, since I don’t think anyone is really taking that position, then certainly discouraged, distracted, not facilitated, de-prioritized?)</p>

<p>With “normal” kids, all of us, pretty much, try to encourage them to delay sex until they have an appropriate level of emotional development (although there may be a range of such levels that different people define as “appropriate”, from “thoughtful” to “married”). Sex is bound up with lots of emotional complication, and competes for energy and attention with other important areas of development. It may affect future careers and prospects. It also brings with it risks of pregnancy, STDs, and abuse, as well as risks to social status.</p>

<p>For children with significant disabilities, those concerns have to apply in very different ways, and some of them may not be applicable at all. If a person may never have the fully-developed emotional life, or education, or training, or career and social status, or parenthood we expect of/hope for independent adults, does it still make sense to delay sexual activity? According to the study, the risk of Down’s Syndrome males impregnating anyone is negligible, and pregnancy risk for females can be controlled. So can STD and abuse risk for both sexes, although this may require more active involvement by caregivers than feels natural in other types of relationships.</p>

<p>How much of the reluctance to support sexual activity is generated by us, the parents, and how much by them, the children, and their needs? Why isn’t sexuality part of every child’s home IEP? How do parents plan to assist their children to achieve a healthy sexual life, if the children need more assistance than some other children?</p>

<p>The survey linked by 2boysima above addresses many questions, but doesn’t begin to answer this one. It does, however, say two things that I think are abundantly clear:

and

We know how Hooker-Hiring Mom in England is proposing to bridge that gap, and to varying degrees we all find that problematic (to say the least). But how are others bridging the gap more creatively and responsibly?</p>

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<p>You don’t want to open a pandora’s box. Wouldn’t be prudent. It is easier not to have sex and never know what you are missing. Also sex between two people in a relationship is much different than paid-for sex.</p>

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It would be easier to go back to the old “throw them in an asylum” model. But we’re trying to improve lives, not simplify things. Maybe sex isn’t a good idea, but you can’t just dismiss it outright.</p>

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<p>A big problem with kid who have mental disabilities is teaching them the “fuzzy logic” in life. Our neighbor has a DS brother who frequently visits them, and this is the area in his life that has caused him the most trouble. </p>

<p>I think it is asking for trouble to set up a sex date for the young man, as it does set a precedent. It may easily lead to inappropriate behavior on his part if he misunderstands how this all works. This not a easy thing for any of us to navigate, much less someone mentally challenged. It is an area fraught with dangers, innuendos, hints that one has to be aware and even then you can get yourself in trouble with sex. Even the smart, high and mighty have landed in trouble over sex. </p>

<p>It is illegal to pay for sex. When you start crossing that line, it’s a big problem. What you are teaching the young man is to break the rule, and he may not be able to do it in a way to stay out of trouble. After all, even Harvard educated Elliot Spitzer was not able to handle such ventures. </p>

<p>Difficult enough to teach kids the rules of appropriate, legal, respectful courtship, dating and, yes, intimate relations ships. Lots of opportunity for hurt feelings, missteps, missunderstandings. To set the young man up in that situation is without a doubtl waaaay over the line for a kid who may have trouble seeing such line. Not doing him a favor at all.</p>

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This is an upsetting post. I don’t know whether to take it seriously or not. The first part essentially argues for denying people with disabilities any sexual expression that requires another person. I didn’t think anyone would believe that was appropriate as a long-term policy. I don’t, although maybe I could imagine specific situations where it might make sense. They would have to be very exceptional.</p>

<p>As for the second part, I assume that is correct, although I don’t have any experience that would help me judge for myself. But so what? (a) No one is going to argue that paid-for sex is a first-choice solution, or really any kind of satisfactory solution at all. The only legitimate debate would be over whether it was preferable to no sex, ever. (b) I also assume that relationships involving people with significant developmental disabilities that include emotional disabilities are different than relationships between two emotionally mature adults. Not worse, necessarily, but different. If a person will never be able to have the kind of mature, nuanced emotional relationship that we see as normative as a context for sexual expression, does that mean he or she should be prevented from having any kind of interpersonal sex? Even if the sex – and maybe even the relationship that accompanies it – could be the source of enjoyment, happiness, self esteem, and connections to other people?</p>

<p>cpt:</p>

<p>Yes, it’s illegal to pay for sex. But it became a problem for Elliot Spitzer not because he was a simple john caught paying for sex, but because he was a powerful, egotistical, moralistic politician who was shown to by a hypocrite by his actions. I don’t know that paying a prostitute to have sex with a Down’s Syndrome adult is a good idea at all, but Elliot Spitzer’s experience has NOTHING to do with it.</p>

<p>And I would ask you the same question I asked above: What does it mean if a kid is never going to be able to navigate all the subtle rules of “respectful courtship”?</p>

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<p>We are all born sexual beings. A 22 yr old man has a sex drive whether he is disabled or not. </p>

<p>I don’t have an answer. When I worked at a same sex group home of young men this age they were often found experimenting with one another as there were not many other options. </p>

<p>People find a way.</p>

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<p>These days disabled kids are given opportunities to meet others and venture into the areas of intimacy. It’s tough going, I agree. But to give a kid a prostitute, which is illegal, what are you teaching the kid? How would he continue to get those services? Do you believe he’s going to say, “gee, that was great. I’m done.”? All I can see is he can get himself in big trouble thinking he can go buy that easily. We are talking about someone mentally challenged, remember? </p>

<p>I did not say a word about denying handicapped folks sex. In fact, I advocate opportunities for them to find intimate relationships, as difficult as it may be. But I don’t advocate consorting with prostitutes for anyone. You literally don’t know what you are venturing in when you cross that line.</p>

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<p>Why do you all assume the mom would let him be privy about hiring a hooker? All she would have to do is make the appointment, then tell her son, “[name] is a very nice girl and would like to meet you…” yada yada yada. I doubt the mom is going to say to her son, “Hey dear, I just paid $800 to hooker…Have fun!”. She isn’t necessarily teaching him how to pay for sex.</p>

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<p>This has nothing to do with disabled’s rights. I don’t condone this behavior for ANY kid from any mother. I am treating the handicapped exactly the same way with the same expectations as anyone. I think it is sad to think that the disabled have to be provided hookers for sex and that they cannot find an intimate relationship otherwise.</p>

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<p>Well, lets just assume then, that mom is doing her son a huge favor, by hiring a hooker for him. How does she explain to him, that this woman is only coming for sex, she has no actual feelings for him…so don’t get attatched to her? Or now that he’s had his first experience and loves it, is mom going to hire hookers on a weekly basis?</p>

<p>I am merely speaking of my situation with my son. I know that he is in no way ready to take on an intimate relationship. He still calls me mommy! Honestly it would be like making justifications for letting a child have sex, in our case. I know him better then anyone, and it is just not something he is anywhere close to handling. Perhaps a little down the line, he will meet someone and could get into a relationship…But, I never ever would have hired a hooker for my other “normal” son, lol…he probably would have liked it too, so would my husband if we go out on that limb, lol…but, I wouldn’t consider it for one second! Sex is not just a physical act…there are human connections attached to it…I want the same for my disabled son, as I do my other kids…When he’s ready.</p>

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<p>gravity’s: If you think about it, what you just proposed is much more problematic than the alternative, since, in addition to breaking the law and commercializing a woman’s body, it involves (a) defrauding a vulnerable person in your care by not telling him everything a reasonable person would want to know about this “date”, and (b) giving him a completely distorted view of what sexual encounters between consenting adults are like. I’m not so certain that it would be terrible to teach him that he could pay for sex, since, as a general matter, and regardless of the law, throughout human history and across most societies one reliably CAN pay for sex, and this isn’t necessarily an exploitation scenario. I am certain that it would be terrible to give him the idea that real life is like one of those Penthouse Forum letters, or the plot of a porno.</p>

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<p>It’s up to my son if he wants to have sex, that’s not an experience I am bound and determined for him to have. Whether my son choses to have casual sex or become celibate or anything inbetween is just not my business nor do I wish it to be.</p>

<p>I understand that parents of disabled children have different boundaries but must that include participating in buying sexual access to another person’s body? Do all the ethical issues around prostitution just disappear in this case? I’m having a lot of trouble seeing that.</p>

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<p>I was wondering if the discussion would get here. Unarguably prostitution is illegal in most places. Whether it is unethical or immoral will depend on your point of view. I do not necessarily think it unethical or immoral if the prostitute is operating from a position of power. If the prostitute is being victimized, then yes. But I don’t think having sex in exchange for payment (of various kinds) always makes one a victim. jmho</p>

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<p>The mother is way over the line. In addition, she is bizarrely fixated on sex as being the cure all for a lack of love.</p>

<p>People with Down Syndrome have the same need for romantic love and affection that virtually everyone else has. A one-time sexual experience won’t fulfill that need.</p>

<p>People with Down Syndrome also can fall in love and get married. One of my former co-workers wrote a book about his brother who did just that. It was later made into a TV movie that some here may have seen.</p>

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<p>Rent The Last Picture Show and watch the scene with Billy and Jimmie Sue. That sure worked out great!</p>

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<p>Northstarmom: Maybe you read something I didn’t, but I didn’t see anything where the mother was fixated on sex as being the cure all for a lack of love, or talking about a one-time sexual experience as a substitute for romantic love and affection. Perhaps she was fixated on sex as being the cure all for a lack of sex (which, of course, it is). Also, I didn’t see any indication she was talking about a one-time thing. She was looking for women who might want to become involved with her son, and thinking about whether it made sense to hire a prostitute (I assumed periodically) in the interim. </p>

<p>Too much information? Probably. Sensationalized by the press? You bet. Mom basking in the attention? Sure looks like it. And that’s where she definitely crosses the line for me.</p>

<p>As for the rest of it . . . Let’s imagine that the whole thing was the boy’s idea. He wants a girlfriend for sex and affection. And sex. He’s fixated on sex. He thinks about hiring a prostitute if he can’t find a real girl willing to have sex with him. That makes him . . . the median teenage boy. (Maybe the median sexually inexperienced teenage boy.) The only difference between that and a “real boy” is that he talked about it to his mum, and she’s helping (and talking) more overtly than most mothers would.</p>

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<p>^^ Those are good points, JHS. This issue comes up as well with young adults with brain injuries. On the one hand, the young adult (and their family) want them to have as normal a life as possible, but they (the young adult) may not have the skills to know how to proceed appropriately. It is a really tough situation that does raise fascinating ethical and moral dilemnas.</p>

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<p>^^it has been coming up with some regularity among my friends with parents with dementia in nursing home situations. And I think it is a quality of life issue.</p>

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<p>Another good example, alh. This all seems to fall under the general rubric of the rights (wants, needs… not sure what the best word would be) of the disabled. Interesting topic.</p>

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<p>^^if a nursing home can provide sex, drugs (and maybe even the rock and roll) it seems appropriate to me. But I am having to keep my mouth shut about that a whole lot in real life. Because my opinion doesn’t seem that popular.</p>