<p>“I honestly don’t know which of these two is true, and since I’ve ruled her out on “wifely” grounds, I don’t need to. But given what she admits to, I can’t see how folks could vote for her for dogcatcher, no less President of the United States.”</p>
<p>I’m curious now that Bill is the attack dog and alpha male fo the campaign, how anyone can realistically think that Hillary would be the president. If people choose to vote for them as a package deal, fine, but I don’t think she can now separate herself, particularly since so much of her “experience” is actually his.</p>
<p>I"m with you on that, Zoosermom. Hillary talks about 35 of experience. What? She was a partner in Arksansas at a law firm, fine, then was first lady, OK, then hopped on the Senatorial bandwagon. Where’s the 35 years again? HE had the experience, not her.</p>
<p>I think that Obama might be a bit thin skinned when Hillary really gets rolling with the criticism. He’s not nearly as tough as she is. She could rattle him pretty badly, IMHO.</p>
<p>I saw an interesting cartoon that showed Hillary in doctor garb along with a number of other medical personnel leaning over a patient about to go for surgery. The caption of it was:</p>
<p>Don’t worry, while I’m not a doctor myself, my husband was one for 8 years.</p>
<p>Anyway, Obama’s done. They’ve painted him as the “Black” candidate, capable of only winning the Black vote. The new Jesse Jackson. Harmless. Not someone who should be taken seriously. A win for him in South Carolina will only confirm it.</p>
<p>“Anyway, Obama’s done. They’ve painted him as the “Black” candidate, capable of only winning the Black vote. The new Jesse Jackson. Harmless. Not someone who should be taken seriously. A win for him in South Carolina will only confirm it.”</p>
<p>Well that is the plan, isn’t it? My husband, who is totally apolitical, was watching tv last night (Hardball or O’Reilly, I only walked passed the TV on the way to PTA meeting) and Jesse Jackson was representing the Obama point of view, and we both laughed and said that Obama is done because Jesse is now on his side.</p>
<p>Mini: which is why I think that Obama made a serious mistake accusing the Clinton’s of racism over the effects of LBJ vs. MLK on Civil Rights. His response cast a contest that had not previously been seen in racial terms much more so. A strategy for failure. You don’t win the nomination by becoming Jesse Jackson.</p>
<p>DKE: Hillary’s toughness is one of the things that appeals to me. I think Obama’s career may have been done a disservice by his election to the Senate being over a deeply flawed whackjob opponent like Alan Keyes. (My apologies to Mr. Keyes if he is reading this board.) This is the first time Obama has had to give and take in a high profile campaign, a process much closer to a hockey match than a game of tiddlywinks.</p>
<p>As for experience, Hillary’s whole career has been involved in politics and public policy. One can sneer at her as First Lady but that holds up only if she were a “yes, dear” spouse in the vein of Laura Bush, compliant, accommodating, and essentially subservient. I think she learned a lot from the health care debacle and her career in the Senate has been marked by numerous instances of bi-partisanship with some pretty unlikely folks, such as Tom Coburn (makes my short list for stupidest U.S. Senator but what the heck). I trust her ability to operate the machinery of government far more than I do Obama’s faith in “hope” and the vague cotton-candy of “post partisanship.”</p>
<p>There’s a sentiment in some quarters, based on false premises, that we can “all work together.” Bullfeathers. You can’t “work together” if one side is determined to be a jingoistic unilateral player in the Middle East and the other isn’t, when one side wants to keep in place the Bush tax cuts that favor the wealthy and one doesn’t, when one side wants to screw labor and the environment and one doesn’t, when one side wants to perpetuate the appointment of judges like Roberts, Scalia, and Thomas and one doesn’t, when one side is anti-Choice and the other side is pro-Choice. Not only are these not compromisable issues, they are not compromisable world views.</p>
<p>x-posted: ZM, but the important thing is, did your H say that Obama was also cooked and baked? Inquiring minds and all that.</p>
<p>"I trust her ability to operate the machinery of government far more than I do Obama’s faith in “hope” and the vague cotton-candy of “post partisanship.”</p>
<p>Really? Voting for war without even reading the intelligence report? Or was it because, being so intelligent and experienced (and deceitful), she didn’t need to? If I were charitable, what I see is bumbling incompetence behind a well-managed veneer. (But I’m not so charitable.)</p>
<p>"There’s a sentiment in some quarters, based on false premises, that we can “all work together.” </p>
<p>Not in these quarters - on virtually every level, bipartisanship over the past 20 years has been a recipe for disaster.</p>
<p>“Race has everything to do with the Clintons’ game. What they are doing is allowing South Carolina to go to Obama (Hillary is leaving Bill there to campaign and get his face on TV while she moves on to other states). Then after Obama has won the state with the large African American vote but no other state, one of them (Bill?) will slyly allude to this so that there is a white backlash. They are shameless and it’s sickening to watch.”</p>
<p>babar, couldn’t agree with you more. Had Billary engaged Obama on the issues and not race, I would vote for her in November if she is the nominee. But I am so disgusted with what they have done, there is no way in h**l that a Clinton will get my vote. I have always supported a democrat in the past regardless of their many shortcomings but not this time.</p>
<p>Hmm . . . “to operate the machinery of government” – what does that mean, exactly? </p>
<p>Hillary is smart, definitely capable, but as far as I’m concerned, she can’t be trusted. Her long-time involvement with Wal-Mart alone (including serving on their board for 6 years in the late 80’s/early 90’s) is enough to keep her out of office, in my opinion. </p>
<p>I definitely agree with mini about the “well-managed veneer,” and–yes-- I think that would be very charitable to simply chalk up her actions (or inactions) to “bumbling incompetence.”</p>
<p>ZM, with all due respect, there is nothing of playing a race card in the article linked by the previous poster.</p>
<p>Moreover, here is the quote that started the whole mess, a quote which I doubt most of the people pontificating have either heard or read:
The statement is factually true and there’s nothing racist about it. Obama’s camp crying “racisim” is what injected race front and center in the campaign and I think it’s ultimately going to blow up in his face. He’ll win South Carolina but get his clock cleaned in Florida and on Super Tuesday.</p>
<p>JM, I would look at Clinton’s actions on the Wal-Mart board before deciding a priori that she was involved in an anti-labor conspiracy.</p>
<p>You have to be kidding. Do you honestly think that LBJ would have passed that bill without the civil rights movement and the leadership of MLK. Who HASN’T heard or read that quote?! </p>
<p>Bill is again twisting words and reality to remind voters that if Hillary loses SC it’s because she’s white - so that the blacks will be perceived as a bloc of voters other than the majority of the country. And that’s Bill and Hill’s strategy.</p>
<p>They are ruthless. Of course they will get the nomination with this trickery. But they may well lose the election.</p>
<p>Plus Obama has to constantly tell people he is Christian to counter the “anonymous” email campaign which tells people he is a Muslim who was sworn in on the Koran. That’s hurting him, too. And guess who is responsible for that?! Bill is the new Britney…He’s everywhere and nothing he does that would embarass a normal person seems to embarass him.</p>
<p>We see what we want to see. This has been proved in scientific experiments beyond questions. I am not debating any position here, but we do find what our preconceptions tell us we will.</p>
<p>It is very difficult to know what’s so when filtered through so many layers of rhetoric, pre-conception, handlers and press. Goes for all candidates.</p>
<p>I’m with Hondu (post above)–I am having the exact same reaction, after having been mildly in Hillary’s camp earlier in the campaign. I am now firmly committed to Barack Obama’s campaign and if he does not win the nomination I will seriously consider who I will vote for. I will not vote automatically for Billary. </p>
<p>I had no idea what a vicious political machine they run, although we got some glimpses this time last year when they were furious about the Hollywood gathering for Barack at which some of their supporters were in attendance. </p>
<p>Barack has come up incredibly in the polls. It may not be quite enough this time around, but I can certainly see a Republican winning in 2008 (because of an anti-Clinton backlash which they are bringing on themselves through their desperate and ugly tactics) and Barack being the candidate in 2012 for the Democrats.</p>
<p>Clinton showed her decency by firing the person in NH who wrote about smoking-snorting in Obama’s past.</p>
<p>Obama did not fire the guy in SC who brought the race issue front and center of the campaign. They wanted to have a cake and it it too.</p>
<p>Now Obama is crying over Clinton’s radio ad. He is the one who said Republicans were the party of ideas. He was hoping to get republican votes, but it seems that that tactic is backfiring, so now complain.</p>
<p>Bill did offer Obama his support and his help should Obama be the nominee.</p>
This is not the point. It took both. The original quote is not offensive to anyone who is not trying to play the race victim card. Read it, word for word. Axelrod (Obama’s manager) thought he could play the racial identity card to seal a win South Carolina. [Reinforces my view that this operation isn’t ready for prime time.] Unfortunately, the racial identity genie got out of the bottle and they can’t stuff it back in. (See also, “The Sorceror’s Apprentice.”)</p>