Is Obama done,cooked and baked?

<p>People aren’t very interested in logic and Novak is a scumbag.</p>

<p>First off, in 1963, Hillary was a teenage girl.</p>

<p>Second was every Goldwater supporter a racist? Was every Goldwater supporter against the Civil Rights Act of 1964? </p>

<p>Because every Goldwater supporter had to be against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 for us to know for sure if Hillary, as a supporter of Goldwater, was against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Otherwise there is no proof. No proof.</p>

<p>Novak has zero proof that Hilary opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Zero.</p>

<p>Never stops him from writing about something he doesn’t know about.</p>

<p>Because he is a *****.</p>

<p>I am sure he was a Goldwater supporter, against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and he is a racist too.</p>

<p>I don’t have 100% proof of the preceding statement, but so what.</p>

<p>Goldwater’s stand against civil rights was one of the primary tenets of his campaign, and he made no bones it. Hillary described herself as a staunch Goldwater supporter, right down to her cowgirl outfit. Yes absolutely, Hillary was a teenage girl then, but she also was a very well informed and intelligent one, an unusually politically active one. </p>

<p>Dstark, the civil rights cause was not a minor point of social contention, but a deeply opposing political force, which, like the Vietnam War, and certainly the issue of slavery before that, had Americans deeply divided. In order to staunchly support a candidate who was unapologetically and vocally opposed to racial equality, you had to at least count that cause of minor importance. Certainly, most people would think it “illogical” to strongly support a cause that diametrically opposes a defining ideology of the candidate whom you enthusiastically support. That would be like strongly supporting gay rights or abortion rights while tirelessly campaigning for a Christian conservative like Pat Robertson. It makes no sense. Sorry Dstark, your outrage notwithstanding, you fail to make a very compelling argument. Hey, I won’t hold it against Hillary that she once stood more in line with the social ideologies of a Barry Goldwater. That was 40 years ago. But I certainly won’t give her a pass when she attempts to hoodwink an AfAm audience by engaging in revisionist history for political gain.</p>

<p>Oh, and Robert Novak might well be a ***, but insulting him doesn’t negate the very compelling point he makes.</p>

<p>“First off, in 1963, Hillary was a teenage girl.”</p>

<p>15 yr 4 month old to be exact.</p>

<p>poetsheart are you implying (based on total nonsensical political blog) that 15 year old girl’s views should be held accountable 35 years later? She was after all raised in a conservative republican family.</p>

<p>It is so much nonsense that even Drudge would not touch it.</p>

<p>Then what about the smoking-snorting of Obama?</p>

<p>“but insulting him doesn’t negate the very compelling point he makes.”
You have got to be kidding.</p>

<p>Are you a republican?</p>

<p>"Most republicans were for Goldwater who was against the Civil Rights Act of 1964.</p>

<p>Most republicans were against racial equality because they supported the Civil Rights Act.</p>

<p>Because most republicans were against the Civil Rights Act it is fair to say all republicans including Hillary were against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and were against racial equality.</p>

<p>All republicans who supported Goldwater were racist.</p>

<p>All republicans including 15 year olds who supported Goldwater were racist."</p>

<p>That’s what Novak is saying.</p>

<p>Your family was republican in the 60’s?</p>

<p>If they were and supported Goldwater, they were racists.</p>

<p>Including the teenagers in your family.</p>

<p>I’m not saying that.</p>

<p>Novak is saying that.</p>

<p>Novak has more in common with a roller derby player or bumper car driver and I regard his credibility accordingly. Okay, so he’s more credible than Ann Coulter and on a par with Chris Matthews. Where have all the David Gergens gone, long time passing?</p>

<p>What happened to Chris Matthews? Was he always this bad or did he have a couple of minor strokes?</p>

<p>He’s not watchable.</p>

<p>I’d rather watch Hannity and Colmes than Chris Matthews. :eek:</p>

<p>Hannity, Colmes and Matthews make me puke.</p>

<p>I believe every move of the Clinton’s is scripted carefully. That’s precisely why they hired Mark Penn, and pay him the big bucks.</p>

<p>New Hampshire and Iowa were both a wake-up call - white folks WOULD vote for Obama. Women would vote for Obama. The math is simple - if you can Jesse Jacksonize the nice, young, fresh African American candidate, he can be marginalized pretty quickly. So praise him for being nice, young, fresh, and African-American, a tribute to his race. </p>

<p>Racially motivated? No way. Election motivated. And what is true is that if Obama can’t deal effectively with the Clinton’s racebaiting (all in the service of good, clean election “fun” - as Hillary called it), the Republicans would be prepared to chew him up.</p>

<p>“So praise him for being nice, young, fresh, and African-American, a tribute to his race.”</p>

<p>What does that say about the American people?</p>

<p>The left always fragments and shoots itself in the foot. (Not that we can really call any of these Dems left. – They’re just not the rabid right.) We’re even at each other on this thread. Christmas for the Republicans.</p>

<p>Mini, Obama’s problem is that he JesseJacksonized (to use your phrase) himself. He called racism on the flimsiest of excuses, one that many notable African Americans with a history in the Civil Rights movement, such as John Lewis, simply aren’t buying. He, to more or less quote from an article in the LA TIMES from somewhere in the last few days, went from being the multicultural candidate in a more or less colorblind contest to being the black candidate. </p>

<p>Obama didn’t just shoot himself in the foot, he used a machine gun. Best bet: he wins South Carolina but it becomes a Pyrrhic victory because it’s discounted by the media on account of “identity politics” and he goes on to get blown out on February 5. (And, as has been pointed out, funny how the media never observed how big it was for minorities and women to vote for a bunch of white guys…)</p>

<p>MM, the Republicans will be at each other too. There are a lot of Republicans who are just as unhappy with McCain as some Democrats are unhappy with Hillary. And I’m still not convinced that McCain gets the coronation\\\ nomination.</p>

<p>Remember how McCain, after he was swiftboated over the Black child, still campaigned arm in arm with/for Bush? Exactly what #151 is saying.</p>

<p>The tag team of Hill and Bill is making race an issue. They are trying to depict Obama as the “black” candidate, thus polarizing him. It may backfire on them.</p>

<p>They are starting to look very foolish and desperate.</p>

<p>[Politics</a> | ON DEADLINE: Clinton Makes Race an Issue | Seattle Times Newspaper](<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2004141629_apclintonrace23.html]Politics”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2004141629_apclintonrace23.html)</p>

<p>“poetsheart are you implying (based on total nonsensical political blog) that 15 year old girl’s views should be held accountable 35 years later? She was after all raised in a conservative republican family.”</p>

<p>Maybe you should go back and reread my post, Simba. This is what I said concerning Hillary’s “accountability” for her political leanings at age 15: “Hey, I won’t hold it against Hillary that she once stood more in line with the social ideologies of a Barry Goldwater. That was 40 years ago.” My beef with Hillary is NOT that she was a staunch Goldwater supporter as a teen, but rather that she now appears before black audiences and claims to have been a firm supporter of the Civil Rights struggle during that same period—a patent lie. At that time, she did not give a rat’s a** about civil rights, because she was her parent’s daughter, parroting the party line of her upbringing. Later, when she enrolled at Wellesley, and was exposed to broader ideologies, it’s pretty clear that her thinking underwent radical change. It’s the revisionist history for political gain that I find offensive. She wants black voters to believe she was a young civil rights ideologue as a fresh faced high school student, and it’s just not true. </p>

<p>“Are you a republican?”</p>

<p>No I am not. I steadfastly refuse to drink the kool Aid of either party, because to me, they most often represent two sides of the same rotten coin. I have voted for republicans and I have voted for Democrats. I have even voted for one candidate from each party in the same election. And as I have already said (I guess you didn’t read my posts after all, Dstark), I support Edwards—a Democrat.</p>

<p>"Most republicans were against racial equality because they supported the Civil Rights Act.</p>

<p>Because most republicans were against the Civil Rights Act it is fair to say all republicans including Hillary were against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and were against racial equality.</p>

<p>All republicans who supported Goldwater were racist.</p>

<p>All republicans including 15 year olds who supported Goldwater were racist.“”</p>

<p>I’m here to tell you that the majority white Americans did NOT believe in racial equality at that time, whether they be Republicans or Democrats. The majority of white Americans assumed that blacks were inherently inferior, and that belief had long been held to be axiomatic. That’s the substance of racism. That alone did not make them “evil people”, nor did it mean that they couldn’t have possessed many other wonderful, redeeming qualities. It just means they were the product of 350 years of history and socialization.</p>

<p>Any person who strongly believed in the struggle for racial equality COULD NOT have staunchly supported someone whose stated objective was to thwart that cause at every turn. That would be a deal breaker, and you well know it. Would you vote for a candidate whose stated goal is to keep America embroiled in Iraq far into the foreseeable future? Would you vote for a candidate whose goal is to oversee the reversal of Roe v. Wade if you strongly believe in a woman’s right to choose? Would you support the candidate whose religious ideologies motivate him to try to weaken the separation between church and state, if you view such actions as a threat to our constitutional freedoms? </p>

<p>No?</p>

<p>I didn’t think so.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I don’t support Obama, so whether he wins or loses any contest means little to me. But what, really now, did he do regarding race that would cause you to claim the man used a “machine gun”? I mean, he just stated the obvious about Iowa. No one but Obama thought all those white folk would vote for him – and they voted for him. That level of faith in Iowans, and the fact that they delivered, is something he actually should have mentioned. There was no race card here. </p>

<p>Did he use a “machine gun” when Oprah supported him, (as one poster here suggests)? I think this idea is complete and utter nonsense. Oprah is a very powerful woman. White candidates want her support too? The fact she is black does not mean she cannot support a black candidate when so many whites support white candidates. It would be one thing had Oprah abandoned Hillary for an empty ideologue like Al Sharpton. The issue of race would be obvious in that case. But Oprah supports Obama, a candidate that arguably has at least as much raw merit and ability as Hillary (which does not say much at all as far as I am concerned). It is reasonable that she would support Obama, weighing the issues she must face as a woman against the historical effects of oppression she must face as a black person, and finding that being black poses the greatest problem. Given this, she would determine it most reasonable, since all else is equal, to vote for the candidate who is most capable of understanding the issues she must face as a black person. That candidate is Barak Obama – has to be. There is no “race card” (where she thinks she “owes” Obama support merely because of race). She is voting her interests, and those interests are valid. Whites reason in the same way she has reasoned, and have done so here since 1607. And they have reasoned in this way despite the fact that they, unlike blacks, have never had any issue of oppression they have had to consider.</p>

<p>Did Obama play the race card when “the black organizations lined up after him”? Obviously not because Obama didn’t even play any card here. Those same black organizations swarmed around Bill Clinton’s campaign back in 1992. And, despite claims to the contrary, Bill Clinton ain’ zackly black. On the other hand, when Alan Keyes ran for president, precisely those same black organizations came out against him in force, despite that Keyes is as black as the darkest night. Those black organizations have interests of particular concern for black folks, due to our history here. They are simply reasoning as Oprah reasoned, and voting accordingly. They are not dealing a “race card” here, and certainly Obama is not dealing one, since he is not even at issue here.</p>

<p>Did Obama deal a race card “when his supporters/surrogates [were] talking trash on TV that he didn’t win NH because whites did not vote for him.”? Obviously not, since Obama didn’t do these things, but allegedly someone else did them. Well, I am not a supporter of Obama, and even I said he didn’t win in NH because of whites. I said he would not win because of whites in Iowa, but I was wrong. I think Iowa was a fluke, really, people who wanted to pat themselves on the back for setting the stage for a massive, nationwide celebration of the utter falsehood that race does not matter in America anymore. I was surprised they did this, but I was not surprised that business as usual would eventually show itself, even in Bill Clinton, a figurative “black president”. I do not think it fair for one to accuse Obama of playing the race card because of something I believe. And I do not think one should blame him for something his supporters claim, though we both claim the exact same thing.</p>

<p>I think the only race card being played in the country is the same race card that has always been played. So many whites are eager to claim Obama is using a “machine gun” in playing the “race card” here because they seek public justification to do to the man what they were going to do all along. Initially, he didn’t have “experience”, despite that Hillary isn’t really all that experienced either. Then it was his alleged connections to nefarious persons, despite that Hillary obviously had nasty connections of her own. Now Obama is playing the “race card”, using a “machine gun” against himself because of what? One guy here claims he played the “race card” simply because the man talked about MLK, despite the fact that virtually ALL politicians speak of MLK, especially around his birthday. People are not terribly interested in allowing Obama the same freedom afforded to other candidates. That is because the entire country is finally doing what it has always done – playing its race card. Obama is about to fall because America cannot deal with a black guy being president. It is just the nasty truth that few people are willing to admit.</p>

<p>All Obama had to do regarding race was mention it (or have his opponent mention it), and suddenly the entire country would turn against him as being “black”, as if that is such an awful thing that it forbids the man a chance to be president. What has Obama really done here? Nothing that no other candidate hasn’t done. Hillary had a photo sent out showing her leadership team - all women, sitting in arrogance, showing their “girl” power to the nation. Yet everyone celebrated it, though it was truly “a machine gun”. But since Hillary is white, whites interpreted it as just a little “water gun”. Had Obama’s team been all black, and he sent out the same sort of photo, whites would have died and come back as zombies to mindlessly vote for anyone, PEE WEE HERMAN, or even Bugs Bunny, as long as they were white or had something white about them. Obama didn’t do anything like Hillary did, yet he is being accused of using a “machine gun” just because he gets support from blacks, the same blacks whose support Democrats have been enjoying since the 1950’s. The fact is, Democrats want black votes as long as those votes go to whites. Anything else, and whites condemn it as using the dreaded “Race Card”.</p>

<p>“What has Obama really done here? Nothing that no other candidate hasn’t done. Hillary had a photo sent out showing her leadership team - all women, sitting in arrogance, showing their “girl” power to the nation. Yet everyone celebrated it, though it was truly “a machine gun”. But since Hillary is white, whites interpreted it is just a little “water gun”. Had Obama’s team been all black, and he sent out the same sort of photo, whites would have died and come back as zombies to mindlessly vote for anyone, PEE WEE HERMAN, even, or Bugs Bunny, as long as they were white or had something white about them. Obama didn’t do anything like Hillary did, yet he is being accused of using a “machine gun” just because he gets support from blacks, the same blacks whose support Democrats have been enjoying since the 1950’s. The fact is, Democrats want black votes as long as those votes go to whites. Anything else, and whites condemn it as using the dreaded “Race Card”.”</p>

<p>Speak it, Dross! Couldn’t have said it better myself!</p>

<p>Well argued, Drosselmeier.</p>

<p>“Initially, he didn’t have “experience”, despite that Hillary isn’t really all that experienced either. Then it was his alleged connections to nefarious persons, despite that Hillary obviously had nasty connections of her own. Now Obama is playing the “race card”, using a “machine gun” against himself because of what? One guy here claims he played the “race card” simply because the man talked about MLK, despite the fact that virtually ALL politicians speak of MLK, especially around his birthday. People are not terribly interested in allowing Obama the same freedom afforded to other candidates.”</p>

<p>Yup, exactly!</p>

<p>In the place of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen! Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the Dawn! Treacherous as the Seas! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!
-Hillary’s Acceptance Speech</p>

<p>(LoL)</p>