Is Princeton Worth It?

Colleges & Universities Princeton University
1

<p>I was just admitted to Princeton from the waiting list. (I guess that makes me one of the lucky few!) I need to decide whether or not to drop out of the University of Michigan (my safety school that I recently committed to) in order to attend Princeton.</p>

<p>The choice would be obvious if not for the financial aspect. My family and I can pay for a Michigan education without a problem, and I would graduate with no student loans whatsoever. Princeton, however, is offering me no financial aid, and I would be graduating at least $80,000 in debt after my family’s cash savings are exhausted. I intend to study business (the Ross BBA program at Michigan is very good, and the ORFE program at Princeton is even better). </p>

<p>Is the difference between Princeton and a Michigan-like institution really worth all that money? I intend to go onto an MBA program and spend my career on Wall Street, so alumni networks and prestige are obviously a factor here. I am not very concerned about the warm-fuzzy factors here (campus architecture, dining plans, etc.) but have a financial decision to make. Any thoughts?</p>

2

<p>Just a thought: Princeton (along with most colleges I think) recalculates your financial aid every year, so you could possibly get some in the future. </p>

<p>As for alumni connections, etc, I think Princeton has Michigan beat hands down. Although Michigan has a bigger alumni network for its sheer size, Princeton’s is more loyal and willing to pull strings for undergrads.</p>

<p>And just as a final thought, I heard that in recent years a quarter of ORFE majors went to work for Goldman Sachs when they graduated. So the job placement at Princeton is nothing to sneeze at. </p>

<p>In short: come to Princeton!</p>

3

<p>The Princeton name will give you a big advantage in bulge bracket ibanking.</p>

4

<p>The truth is, while Princeton is far and away the better school, you’d be fine at Michigan. A high GPA at Ross will get you an interview / internships at any of the big banks. After that, Princeton or Michigan, you’re basically on your own. Networking when you get your MBA will be much more critical.</p>

<p>In a nutshell: Princeton isn’t worth going $80,000 into debt for if all you’re concerned about is your career.</p>

5

<p>I’m very surprised that Princeton is offering you no finaid if that requires you going into $80,000 worth of debt. Have you contacted the finaid office directly? If there are legitimate reasons your family can’t afford the full freight, the finaid office will definitely help you out. The average debt upon graudation here is a mere $1000, if even that.</p>

6

<p>If you intend to go to Wall Street after you graduate, you should not base your decision on money. Regardless of which school you choose, you will make a very nice salary plus some hefty bonuses (average employee at Goldman Sachs makes around $500,000). With this type of earnings potential, you could afford to drop $80,000 for Princeton because you think a tiger is a cooler mascot than a wolverine, much less because of alumni connections, prestige, etc. This is a no brainer. Come to Princeton.</p>

7

<p>Actually, Weasel, the salaries for most Wall Street employees are much lower than that. Even assuming the OP gets a front-office job at a bulge bracket firm, he’ll most likely never even see a $500k bonus. Many analysts and associates don’t progress especially far, and of those that do only a small few reel in the huge salaries. It’s an extremely skewed system: those at the top earn enormous sums of money, while those who aren’t don’t. Which is not to say that he won’t earn a comfortable salary, especially later in his career. But to graduate with $80,000 in debt from Princeton and then a heavy additional load of debt for an MBA would be an annoying burden during his 20s and perhaps early 30s.</p>

8

<p>To answer your question debryc… My family is successful to the point that I am nowhere near qualifying for aid, but they nevertheless refuse to pay for about half of an “overpriced” Princeton education. I’m essentially on my own there. I did contact the financial aid office, and they said that there was nothing they could do for me.</p>

9

<p>I don’t know how you could even borrow $80,000 without your parents co-signing. You might be able to make arrangements with a private party.
I doubt that anybody in years (ever?) has graduated Princeton $80,000 in debt. You’d be one terrific outlier!</p>

10

<p>jcooper650, I’m sorry that your parents refuse to pay for Princeton. Yes, the key phrase was “legitimate reason” for not being able to afford the costs. If you parents simply refuse to pay, then Princeton can’t do much about it. </p>

<p>Are your parents absolutely not budging on this? Princeton, in my honest opinion, is worth every penny of their money. Could you compromise? For example, they pay for tuition/room&board, you take care of books/miscellaneous costs. Or, they pay for everything now, and you pay them back after graduating from business school at no interest. </p>

<p>Have your parents discussed this with other parents? finance advisor? What are their opinions?</p>

<p>Graduating with $80,000 in personal debt is NOT a good idea, especially because your family makes enough money to not qualify for interest-free or even low-interest loans. I personally think that if your parents and you can’t come to a compromise, the better financial decision would be to attend University of Michigan. Like you said, the Ross BBA program is good, and once you get into business, it’s your performance, not your undergrad education, that will get you to the top. It’s also very debilitating to live with loans. It’ll affect decisions such as whether or not to work for an NGO one summer, where you can live, whether you take the job you’ll like vs. the slightly higher paying job that you’ll loathe. You’ll also need money for all the little things that pop up during college such as extracurricular activity fees, trips with friends, etc. </p>

<p>It is true that a quarter of ORFE majors graduate to go into Goldman Sachs. In fact, a good number of engineering students go into Goldman Sachs and other high-power firms, too. But even with these relatively higher salaries, you’ll be shakled by debt and most likely working, not because you like your job, but because you have bills to pay. Not a happy existence. Still, Princeton will most likely give you greater assurance of finding a good job after graduation. It’s a tough decision.</p>

<p>Good luck jcooper650. Definitely seek advice from people who are more familiar with your dilemma, who have, perhaps, lived through your dilemma. They’ll be able to shed more light upon which choice fits you better.</p>

11

<p>If you have to take out a loan as personal debt, you shouldn’t go to Princeton. I had thought you would be able to work out a repayment plan with your parents.</p>

<p>Here’s an old discussion about IB I found:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=11494[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=11494&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Here’s a survey from 1999. Remember to adjust it some for inflation.
<a href=“http://www.careers-in-finance.com/ibsal.htm[/url]”>http://www.careers-in-finance.com/ibsal.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>GR Elton mentioned that many analysts don’t make it very far in IB. This is partially, but not entirely, attributable to burnout. People get tired of the long hours and want to do something they find more meaningful. To the best of your ability, you should try to figure out what the chances are that you will fall into this category. I maintain my position that taking on $80,000 in debt for a business career is not something to worry about; however, if you get out of college and realize that business is not for you, that $80,000 debt can be a real stone around your neck.</p>

12

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<p>Analysts are hired for two years with a third year option if their performance is strong enough. The base salary for these two years will be around $75k - $90k with a bonus that may be up to a similar magnitude. If you earn the top bonus, you’ll make perhaps $175k at most at Goldman. A lot of that goes into taxes, so it’s not as much as it sounds. Even then, most analysts earn less.</p>

<p>Moreover, the high attrition rate isn’t so much due to burnout as simply to being forced out. Investment banks employ an up-or-out system whereby most candidates are eventually winnowed out. Getting promoted after being an analyst is not easy. Most people are forced out and go to work for boutique firms which pay much less. To put it in perspective, many Harvard, Wharton, Columbia, etc. MBAs are rejected for associate positions: these are committed, hardworking, and talented people who haven’t burnt out. The competition for the few really lucrative spots is simply that intense.</p>

13

<p>Choosing just about any school over HYP(or MIT/Caltech) is a huge mistake. Due to the recent explosion of endowment values at the very top, there is now a huge disparity in resources per student between HYP and everyone else. That is translating into previously unheard of opportunities for those students lucky enough to be part of the elite. For example, HYP will pay for any undergraduate to travel anywhere he/she wants every summer. The quality of advising, diversity and quality of the student body, and undergraduate teaching similarly blows away the competition. Just like in the real world, resources are becoming increasingly concentrated in the very top tier.</p>

14

<p>hrm, i’m going to have to diagree with posterX. Princeton is great, but it’d be nice if it were as great as you say. We do have lots of money, but we dont have THAT much money to spend on students’ endeavors and research. And advising (especially first 2 years) isn’t that great</p>

15

<p>NEVER EVER DIS PRINCETON… it rockssss… seriously people are willing to take 200,000 in debt to get into princeton… just gooooooooooooo</p>

16

<p>It is a very personal decision. I would chose Princeton.</p>

17

<p>If all you want to do is to make money, you’ll do fine coming out of UMich. Hell, you’ll probably know more than the English lit grads from Princeton who go work I-banking.</p>

18

<p>If it’s money you’re worried about, go to Princeton. Keep in mind that it’s likely that your first year as an I-banker at Goldman Sachs will pay the debt off (and good luck getting in from Michigan!) If you’re into a business career a Princeton education will quickly pay for itself.</p>

19

<p>Agree Cibber. Like I explained in detail in #13 above, if you get into HYP you should pretty much mortgage everything you own and sell your family in order to attend.</p>

20

<p>Go to Princeton. A few years after your college, your salary and inflation would make $80,000 appear to be a real small sum to you. And this is only a part of the tangibles a Princeton degree would bring for you.</p>

<p>By the way, when it comes to biz and financial career prospects, undergrad degrees from both Princeton and MIT top any other U.S. schools. Just ask Goldman Sachs.</p>