If my student has international awards and solid leadership and 4.0gpa/1560 SAT, does he stand a chance? From the past admits from our school, its pretty clear students with great scores/academic rigor and ISEF winner or climate change project winners are sure shot admits. Does this mean that even if the student is accomplished in everything but does not have ISEF or Math Olympiad in resume, its hard to get in?
His stats look great so of course he has a chance! But outside of recruited athletes and big donors, there are no âsure shot admitsâ to these schools. Unhooked admissions are sub 10%. Have a balanced list of reach, target, and safety schools and Iâm sure heâll have lots of great options. Good luck!
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No one can answer that. Coming from a school that has a lot of Ivy admits certainly helps. My S24 had a 3.98/1580 and was shut out at the handful of ivies he applied to (only 3) but he is an unhooked kiddo from an extremely competitive area of the country (MA). There are not guarantees - make sure your kid has a some less competitive options.
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I donât like the word âspikeâ.
A broader concept is that once they are down to just the applicants they considered competitive in all three of the ways fundamentally important in holistic reviewâacademics, activities, and personal/fit factorsâcertain colleges still have way too many applicants left to admit them all.
So they begin trying to shape an enrolled class with a mix of different applicants who stood out to them in one way or another. But potentially you can stand out in all sorts of ways.
Like, maybe they thought something about your personality as shown through your essays and recommendations and stuff would make you a great addition to your classes and dining conversations and teams and so on. Maybe you were one of the top applicants from Wyoming and they really want to say they got someone from all 50 states. Maybe you are really talented at something they hope you will keep doing in college. And on and on.
I note periodically people get access to their admissions file at the college that enrolled them (you actually have a right to that access), and they are sometimes surprised at what that college saw as their strongest aspects. So it is not always predictable what will actually make you stand out in the way that gets you admitted at any given college like this.
And this is why despite the low admissions rates, it is not crazy to apply as long as your qualifications are academically competitive, and you study what they say about what they are looking for, and think, yeah, they are talking about me! Because if you think that, there is a chance they will agree. And you shouldnât talk yourself out of that because you have not followed some particular formula that worked for someone else in the past. Because there is no formula, and something else might well work for you.
Or not, so have a well-balanced application list.
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Yes, he stands a chance. It is however exceptionally difficult to predict admissions to Stanford or Ivy League schools, or other top schools such as MIT and Caltech.
With international awards, a 4.0 unweighted GPA, and 1560 on the SAT, if your son would like to attend Stanford or an Ivy League school then it is worth an application.
A good fit is way, way more important than the ranking of a school. A good fit can be more difficult to identify. Keep the budget in mind, run the NPCs if you are not okay being full pay, and make sure that your son also applies to safeties.
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Nope, doesnât mean that (even if your assessment of past results is accurate which I wouldnât bet on). âSpikesâ are made up terms by people not involved in admissions, you donât need one to get in - of course that doesnât me you will get in, there are still far more qualified applicants than there are offers so no qualified applicant is assured admissions.
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If they apply, they have a chance. If they donât, then they have no chance.
Everyone - even the best on paper, need a balanced list.
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I donât like the word âspikeâ either. To me, it is a dated concept. The most elite colleges are not just looking for spikes or well-roundedness or even diversity, geographical or racial or otherwise. They want it all, in each class they admit. And they get it by handpicking individuals for each class, and it changes every year according to their institutional needs. (I think the one thing that wonât change is a truly hooked applicant, such as a recruited athlete, or some huge bigwig donorâs child.)
Yes. It is still hard to get in, even for the student described. No highly rejective school is a sure bet.
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You are talking about schools with low to mid single digit acceptance rates. So when you ask hard to get in you already know.
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This probably canât be emphasized enough. One year you might be seen as the best fit for some institutional priority and get admitted, the next they might not see a need for another such admit, or that time they like some other applicant a little more, or so on, and you donât. This is a major contributor to the fundamental uncertainty.
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By the way, it happens one of those admissions file threads popped up recently, this one for Yale. I think you can see what I mean about what those tell us:
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These schools get so many applications from excellent students, so sure, it helps to have something really exceptional to stand out in that crowd.
But as everyone notes, they need a little of everything to make a class, and thereâs a fair amount of serendipity as to where any individual fits into that. A hypothetical fencing recruit could look just like you, in which case what you bring - however wonderful - is somewhat. Or alternatively, there could be an emphasis on a new program and a need to admit a critical mass of students to ensure its vibrancy, and youmightfit that profile perfectly. But in neither case can you control for that.
Youâre highly accomplished. Apply. Anything could happen. And understand the odds.
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How does his weighted GPA, course rigor and test score compare to the rest of his HS class?
Echoing this. âSpikeâ is a term used to help make admissions for easily understandable (also more marketable) when reality is that it gets way more nuanced. Students are understood in detail, holistically, and not in black-in-white terms of having a spike or not.
He has a good academic profile, and coming from a school that previously sent students to Ivies help his chances! No one has guaranteed admissions, and the only way to know if to apply.
ISEF or Math Olympiads are only some of the ways to demonstrate a studentâs abilities and passion, and every student is different. There are many ways to stand out other than these two, but the similarity is that they are demonstrate genuine passion and dedication towards it.
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One more thing comes to mind reading this thread.
I got my bachelorâs degree at MIT (admittedly multiple decades ago). Thinking about the other students who I met when I was there, and thinking about how they might have gotten admitted, one thing comes to mind: They did what was right for them. They were genuine. âWhat was right for themâ however varied enormously from one student to the next.
As one example, one fellow student had created an art project in high school that consisted of a machine that ran around randomly in a closed room, while people watched from a window. This was back when electric motors were typically plugged into a wall. After about 20 or 30 minutes his machine got tangled up in its own cord and unplugged itself.
Another had excelled in martial arts. At one point he walked late at night through a part of Boston or Cambridge where he should not have been, and got jumped by two large men. He left them both semi-concious and just walked back to campus with no harm done to the student.
Another student had won a major sailing competition.
Several were chess players, but mostly only on the level of very local competition. Several thought they were good at poker or bridge, although not at any serious level of competition that I was aware of. One was a pretty good hockey goalie and played on some sort of team at MIT (perhaps intermural?).
All were strong at math and sciences. 800 on the math part of the SAT was common.
In all of this the only student who had won anything that was an international competition was the sailor.
No one can say that your son will get accepted to Stanford or MIT or an Ivy League university. However, 'international awards" and â4.0gpa 1560 SATâ does sound like a good start, particularly if the 4.0 is unweighted.
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Thank you, Its just heart breaking to see dedicated kids putting in all for a dream school and it may not happen. As a parent, we do keep assuring that there is a college for everyone and it doe snot matter but thats not what kids want to hear!
Thats all there. 4.0, All 5âs in 14-15 APs he took, advanced courses. He did everything with passion since middle school but we just started hearing about the âspikeâ and I guess its too late (he didnt do his ECs from college admission point of view) but the more I read, it felt like thats what the top colleges look for
I think that pays off more often than you think. AOs look for genuine interest.
I think a successful âspikeâ is more in the sense of depth/dedication into a certain activity. Not just accolades. The awards more often than not come with depth, but I think itâs not the award in itself that is making the impact. My kids did not have a âspikeâ in the award sense, but were definitely âpointyâ with limited but deep interests/activities.
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This!
Also, letâs be honest here: I have a hard time imagining that someone has put in the time and energy into something such that they have won an international award, but arenât âspikyâ, at least in whatever activity the international award is in. And, it would hard to get to that level if you do not have a genuine interest in that activity.
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You need to reframe the narrative. A high stats, hard working student doesnât need a highly rejective school to be successful.
There are plenty of schools with similar vibes to the top schools that are less competitive for admission.
As long as your student has a balanced college list they will be fine. (And itâs not too late to make sure there is a sure thing theyâd be happy to attend).
IMO a dream school is a recipe for disaster and Iâd encourage a change in language. Rejection can be disappointing but âheartbreakâ should be reserved for major life events. Not getting into Harvard shouldnât be on that list of heartbreaks.
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