Academia doesn’t have jobs for ivy grads, or any other grads, really. I don’t think the number entering public service is any lower now than historically.
This varies over time due to both the state of the economy and the perceived desirability of alternative high income fields, such as tech. The percent of full time job grads who say they are working in finance and consulting, in Harvard’s senior survey are below, by year.
2007 – 45%
2009 – 20% (Great Recession, negative sentiment about banking)
2011 – 22%
2013 – 31%
2015 – 34%
2017 – 36%
2019 – 35%
2021 – 40%
2023 – 42%
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The name brand must mean a lot to hire that many Harvard grads every year.
Thanks for pulling those data.
It’s important to note that for each of these years, not all Harvard grads go into the workforce. For 2023, 58% of undergrads went into the workforce, so the proportion of the entire class going into finance and consulting was 42% x 58%, or 24%. I’m not going to do the research for all the other years, but there can be variability in the number of undergrads going in to the workforce each year.
From the Crimson report:
Compared to last year, fewer seniors will immediately enter the workforce after graduation, down from 67 percent to 58 percent.
More than one-fifth of respondents entering the workforce said they plan to work in finance, and 19 percent will go into consulting, on par with last year’s numbers. But most don’t intend to stay for long: only 37 percent of finance-bound seniors and 5 percent of consulting-bound seniors hope to remain in the same industry 10 years after graduation.
Meanwhile, 11 percent will work in academia or research.
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“Elite” finance/consulting is indeed one of the few fields that emphasizes prestige of college name in hiring decisions, but seeing that a good portion of the Harvard class goes in to these fields is not a reliable way to confirm this boost from college name.
Similarly the stats I posted earlier suggest that a larger portion of Georgetown grads go into law than both Harvard and Yale grads. However, this is not a reliable indicator that law schools prefer the Georgetown brand name to the Harvard /Yale brand name. Instead the difference may relate to things like Georgetown students being more likely to prefer law school or less likely to have adequate qualifications for alternative fields, such as tech.
It’s a similar idea for finance/consulting. Plenty of grads do not want to enter finance/consulting or may do so out of lack of alternative high-salary options for their major. There are also connections like kids who are big on prestige are more likely to choose both Harvard + Yale for undergrad and what they perceive as a prestigious company for grad, which may contribute to unique prestige-focused nature of these industries. Without the prestige focus, they lose a good portion of appeal to many Ivy+ type grads. An example article that goes in to more detail about such ideas is at How Wall Street recruits so many insecure Ivy League grads - Vox .
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Also Georgetown grads probably intern with the politicians and lobbying firms and are swayed to go to Law school.
I was going to point out the same …and for Penn (and other schools), the 50% “consilting” for arts&sci grads is 50% of those that go directly into the work force, so minus all the med and law and grad school kids
EK: Wall Street seems particularly good at both valuing the skills and managing the fears of liberal arts majors. A lot of kids graduated with a degree in sociology or English literature and feel they don’t know any skills that will help them get a job. Wall Street both seems to see the value of that kind of learning and see how to position themselves as a kind of continuing-education program.
They are hiring nearly 50% of the Harvard graduating class entering the work force and the university doesn’t offer any specific business major. If they are hiring a lot of Harvard kids with sociology or English literature degrees, it seems to me that the specific Harvard education and how they well performed academically has little to do with their appeal. Is it unreasonable to assume that the name brand is what makes these students particularly attractive to these firms?
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Yes, my post said, “The percent of full time job grads” and in an earlier I listed the specific 42% x 58% math. I also don’t care to do the calculation for each year, but the point is a good portion of class goes in to finance/consulting, and that percent varies over time due to changes in external circumstances, such as the sharp decline during the Global Financial Crisis period.
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If you are basing that assumption on only the fact that there are a lot of Harvard grads in those fields, it is an unreasonable assumption. As I stated, I don’t disagree that “elite” finance/consulting hiring decisions emphasize college name. I do disagree with assuming that if a good portion of Harvard grads enter a particular field, the Harvard brand name must be what makes these students attractive to the employer.
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Nvm
Not to mention the 24% of 2023 Harvard grads going into finance and consulting aren’t all going to ‘elite’ companies. Some are going to companies like Cigna, LEK, local and regional banks, start-up biotechs, etc.
I see your point, but it doesn’t make complete sense to me.
It’s a weird profession where one commonly plucks new hires who have minimal educational background related to your industry. And since there are large numbers recruited in each class, selectivity seems to be a relatively unimportant factor. There aren’t many professions that are willing to basically teach you as you go along starting from the bottom.
It is my understanding that many of these entry, but well-paying positions are highly coveted by graduates of less prestigious universities. What is it that these employers are actually looking for in their new hires?
I know of one student from one of these ivies who went to Wall street for a couple of years. Got burnt out and is now applying for med school.
I see your point, but it doesn’t make complete sense to me.
A larger portion of Babson grads work in finance than Harvard grads. That doesn’t mean finance companies prefer the Babson brand name to the Harvard brand name. You need to consider additional factors to evaluate whether the brand name has an influence on hiring decisions. The assumption is problematic, regardless of industry.
It is my understanding that many of these entry, but well-paying positions are highly coveted by graduates of less prestigious universities. What is it that these employers are actually looking for in their new hires?
Hiring practices vary by industry . “Elite” finance/consulting emphasis on prestige is the exception, not the rule. For example, I work in tech and am more familiar with that industry. In tech, employers are generally looking for a person who has the skill set to be successful in the position. It’s common for job postings to state that they require a specific major group and review that particular skills are present. When evaluating who to bring in to interview, relevant experience in a work environment is important. Best of all is an internship at that company, where persons at the company have experience working with the candidate. It’s also extremely likely that there will be a series of technical interviews that involve solving a series of problems, in addition to company fit type interviews. The focus is generally not on prestige of college name, although tech employers may be more likely to favor recruiting at colleges where they are more likely to get qualified candidates. This recruiting decision can be influenced by things like distance from employment, number of grads in desired majors, experience with past hires from that college, etc. It’s not primarily a function of which college has highest prestige.
Regarding finance/consulting, I’m not as confident that a similarly large portion of students “highly covet” finance/consulting positions at your average public as at Harvard. While the positions often pay well, traditionally many have also required 100+ hour weeks of doing unrewarding work, leading to a poor quality of both mental and physical health, loss of personal relationships, etc. It’s not something every grad strives for.
Instead, I think there are other factors. These other factors include different groups of input students. I’d expect students who are focused on being employed at a prestigious company are more likely to also emphasize prestige in their undergraduate college decision; so they are overrepresented at schools like Harvard. There are also widely varying major distributions at different colleges, which is correlated with different desired career paths after graduating.
Employment decisions are also influence by which employers students see at career fairs and other campus recruiting events. Freshmen surveys suggest many students enter Harvard/Yale without having finance/consulting on their radar, yet still enter these fields after graduating, likely due to a combination of seeing employers on campus and seeing what friends are doing. Had they attended a college with different recruiters on campus, they might have instead favored those different recruiters.
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Please lets get back to the college admissions process. Please start a new thread, or join one of the existing ones, to discuss finance recruiting. Thank you.
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That is great! Med school would not be my first choice as a cure for burnout!
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Compared to working 100-110 hours on some foreign desk in IB the residencies have limits now. Also many are unionized. Medschool is tough but residencies have become easier.
I’ve always liked the way the Common Black College Application works. Students pay one application fee and list a few member colleges to apply to, but (I think this is how it works) all of the 66 member colleges have access to the application and can make an offer of admission. It helps students receive offers from schools they may not have considered and it helps schools put their aid offers in front of more students.
I think a common LAC application would be popular or possibly a state wide application that both privates and publics could utilize. As some smaller colleges are becoming less popular this might be a way to drive higher enrollment.
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Some common app schools have started making direct admissions too, even though the student didn’t send their app to the school: