<p>“But, it’s not like she went to Selma and delivered an entire speech in an accent.”</p>
<p>If Selma was the only time that she did that it would be one thing, but she has a history of this sort of pandering.</p>
<p>Before Selma she said this (again affecting a black accent to the best of her ability when referring to the “plantation” and the “you know what I’m talkin’ about”:
Nice allusion to the (then) Republican House being like a plantation for improving the tone of racial discourse, don’t you think?</p>
<p>Then, after Selma, in Harlem with Mr. Racial Harmony himself (Al Sharpton) she said this:
<p>I heard some Republicans on the radiio today, saying they thought it was just fine to change your mind when new information came up, or there was growth in the person or the like, and who wants to bet they called some dems flipfloppers in the past for dong the very same thing</p>
<p>And I guess some of us take what is happening to this country and its future important enough to get a bit riled up on a message board, and for that I am glad</p>
<p>To be all polite all the time and let things slide does not do justice to our country, nor the people that have fought for it</p>
<p>This site has its fluff threads and its serious ones, people are free to pick and choose</p>
<p>“Why not try to change people’s minds, wasn’t that what the debate was for anyway?”</p>
<p>I’m sorry? Was that directed to me? If so, my response is that I was talking about posters here accepting differences of opinion, not the political debate. If not directed to me, then I apologize.</p>
<p>“This site has its fluff threads and its serious ones, people are free to pick and choose” </p>
<p>But are people free to twist others’ words and attack them for things they didn’t say? I’m guessing you will say yes because you are one of the most common perpetrators of that behavior.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, you have taken exception to people seeking to pin your opinions down to some sort of specific factual basis before. That’s kind of the point: not just to say, “I think Hillary Clinton stands for nothing” but to explain why you feel that position is valid, or at least defensible. If you don’t, you’re just repeating an opinion, which, frankly, is just wasting everyone’s time and the host’s bandwidth. If you believe that the moon is made of green cheese, that’s fine, but unless you want to explain why you have that opinion, you’re wasting our time by simply repeating your opinion.</p>
<p>One of the reasons I take the time to post on sites like this is that I am personally aware of some widely held beliefs which are factually indefensible, yet widely believed to be true because they have been repeated so often that people accept them uncritically. I don’t know much about Hillary Clinton; if there’s some reason to asset that she “stands for nothing” I’d be sincerely interested to hear it - I will be voting in the Democratic primary next year, and at this point she’s one of the leading candidates. But your bland and unsupported assertion of that fact is of little or no use to me.</p>
<p>There’s a good example in this thread: Reflectivemom cited the widely distributed instance of H. Clinton speaking is a poorly delivered “southern” accent. When reference to underlying facts are made, however, it’s possible to learn that she was, in fact, reading a passage which was written in dialect - making the reality far different from the snickering and false (but accepted as true through repetition) impression given by the artfully edited snippet of a small portion of her remarks which has been widely distributed.</p>
<p>Facts. Always good to have 'em.</p>
<p><a href=“Added%20after%20cross-post”>I</a> *- And now FF has added in circumstances in which he asserts that H. Clinton “affected” a Southern - or if I read FF correctly - “black” accent while speaking. I can choose to follow up to see if it’s true if it interests me enough one way or the other, or I can ignore it. But it’s not just an 'opinion" which I would certainly ignore.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, you have taken exception to people seeking to pin your opinions down to some sort of specific factual basis before."</p>
<p>No Kluge, what I take exception to is having words attributed to me that I didn’t state and opinions and feelings that I don’t hold. That happens a lot here. I also take exception to being called “lacking in class or intelligence” and will generally leave threads when they reach that point and thus will not respond with facts or anything else because how can you defend an opinion that you don’t hold?</p>
It’s usually good to refute facts with facts. You have no idea which of Hilary’s use of southern/black accents Reflectivemom was referring to - and certainly there have been cases that had nothing to do with quoting from a hymn.</p>
<p>I’m heading home for the weekend, not taking exception to anything (I really need to not post at the end of the day!), and hope that all of you have a wonderful weekend.</p>
<p>I’m not trying to be argumentative, but didn’t you write in post #42:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I was simply asking what you meant by “empty-suit” to describe Sen. Clinton. It just struck me as one of the more unlikely knocks on that particular candidate.</p>
<p>As for the accents, I lived for many years in the South. Although I do not normally have a Southern accent, my then 8 year old daughter noticed once while we were driving South that, as soon as I hit the North Carolina line, a drawl crept into my speech. </p>
<p>Having spent a significant portion of her adult life in Arkansas and having spent considerable time in black congregations, I would not be at all surprised if the same thing happens to Sen. Clinton. I know plenty of Yankees living in the south who pick up a (truly horrible) southern accent and don’t have the first clue they are doing it.</p>
<p>FF - I found the latter speech you referred to above, the one where Clinton said
I may be a victim of artful sound editing, but that comment - which you ascribe to racial opportunism - followed shortly after her comment “I’m proud to be a woman in politics.” Not the funniest line in the world, but a long way from racial pandering. And frankly, I didn’t detect any particular accent in that speech at all. If you go on Youtube, the references to “Hillary’s fake accent” all come back to her reading that passage in Selma.</p>
<p>I know H. Clinton is one of those people you “love to hate”, and is a target of the repetitive negativity in blogs you follow, but if you have any evidence of H. Clinton affecting a southern accent I’m still waiting. Just because something is repeated like an echo chamber in places you spend a lot of time in doesn’t actually mean it’s true. It might be, but I’m still waiting for some facts here.</p>
<p>P.S. Youtube has Fox News’ absolutely shameless and despicable hatchet on on Clinton about the Selma speech, where they cut out everything except the excerpt where she’s reading the dialect part, and then talk about it as if that was the way she gave her entire speech. Witty comments like “If she gave a speech in front of gays, would she lisp?” I haven’t paid a lot of attention to Fox lately, but watching that I can’t blame some candidates for electing not to consider Fox a legitimate “news” outlet. Clinton has never been my favorite, but if she inspires this much mudslinging from the troglodytes, I may have to take another look.</p>
<p>At least Clinton got the name of Sharpton’s organization right when she spoke to it. Poor Barrack kept calling it the wrong name until finally the audience interrupted him and told him the name of their organization. Ooops.</p>
<p>I just finished putting up with four years of absentee Romney, who only had state policy to botch…I certainly don’t want to see him in charge of national policy…not that he could botch things much worse than they already are…</p>
<p>Interestedad and kluge -put aside your unfailing and blind support of the democrats for just a moment. Forget about abortion, healthcare, the war, guns, evolution, all of it. Forget about questionable stock trades and a morality that has always been for sale to the highest bidder. Forget all that. But don’t forget that Hillary was a lifelong Chicago Cubs fan, and then, and then, she carpetbagged to New York and announced she had always secretly been a New York Yankees fan. What more is there to say??</p>
<p>More on the allegation of “pandering.” GWBush has a strong Texas accent, which his father lacks, despite having lived in New England during his prep school, college and grad school years. I accept the explanation that he’s just susceptible to slipping into that accent, having lived in Texas during his younger days and returning later. I think most people’s “accent” tends to shift to a greater or lesser degree in the direction of those around them. But people on the left - including at least one regular her at CC - were quick to call Bush a phony for affecting a Texas accent. “Pandering” would not be a bad distillation of the criticism from the left. Maybe there is and/or was an element of opportunism in Bush’s “awe shucks” speaking style; maybe there’s an element of natural speech adaptation; my guess is there’s a little of both. Probably the same with Clinton. Bottom line: who cares? It’s just an excuse for people who don’t like them anyway to justify their distaste for them. Why not pay more attention to the content of their comments, and to their deeds, and less to the fluff? </p>
<p>FireBad, I’ll admit I have “issues” with anyone who is a Yankee fan, and something in between pity and a desire to “just give a hug” to anyone who is a Cubs fan. But I personally changed team allegiances to the A’s in the early 1980’s after being a lifelong Giants fan who listened to Mays, McCovey, Cepeda and the rest on the radio growing up. Please don’t hate me. :)</p>
<p>Hereshoping. Your statement is correct. I’m not sure what your point is, but I don’t think it’s the same as FF’s.</p>
<p>“It’s usually good to refute facts with facts. You have no idea which of Hilary’s use of southern/black accents Reflectivemom was referring to - and certainly there have been cases that had nothing to do with quoting from a hymn.”</p>
<p>I was referring to ALL the times she’s pulled out the accent - contrary to the those who make excuses for her - it was not one time while reading a passage in dialect. This is different than “slipping” back into an accent. It’s pandering, it’s fake, and it insults those to whom she speaks</p>
<p>Now, I have no problem with Bill “slipping back into a southern accent”. It’s more natural, it’s more believable and he does have a basis for it. So, if he wants to pull out his “old” southern accent and charm when it behooves him to do so - it’s fine with me. It’s a smart strategy.</p>