<p>Periwinkle,
I think you are right about the girls. Suffield told me specifically that they had an incredibly strong year for girls in particular. I would imagine it’s the same other places too.</p>
<p>At Deerfield, we were told the number of legacy/sibling boys applying for ninth grade was much higher than normal this year. Many more boys than girls in this group. However, I do not know the overall boy/girl applicant split (yet).</p>
<p>Here’s the problem with vouchers in a nutshell,</p>
<p>If it works, and the schools are not required to take student first-come, first served, you’ll see the same game playing we’ve seen here with Charter schools and private schools.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>They’ll take cherry pick the students they want and we’ll see parents in the same situation - waiting on a BS type lottery for a spot, or on an endless wait-list.</p></li>
<li><p>Here, the state requires first come/first serve and a lottery if enrollment is above capacity. Only my daughter’s charter school was outed when they rigged sibling preference by choosing a child in an under-subscribed grade, then used sibling preference to enroll the remainder of a politicians family. Some draw the boundaries to exclude certain populations. Some quietly advertise openings to one population and claim they are over-enrolled to others (all true stories).</p></li>
<li><p>They’ll take all students first-come, first served (as Charters here are required to do), then begin to weed out students for specious reasons once they’ve received the state payment. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>We have several charters here who start full classes then have graduating size of 13. Once paid by the state they make it hard on parents and students then “encourage them” to withdraw. If that fails, they kick students out without allowing hearings. One school – when claiming a child had a D average and facing probation – was forced to reveal that there were “grading mistakes and omissions” by teachers. The child was actually at a B average and qualified the dean’s list. </p>
<p>Just saying that there would have to be a litany of rules - otherwise the kids with vouchers will be just another paycheck to some schools who have no interest in working with them – OR – they’ll be left on the outside with no options while schools select the most desirable students which will further decimate urban districts by segregating the population even more.</p>
<p>Interesting post on another thread that might shed some light on the high WL this year…
see Post #43 from D’yer Maker…</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1098890-fa-wait-list-soft-denial-fact-real-possibility-3.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1098890-fa-wait-list-soft-denial-fact-real-possibility-3.html</a></p>
<p>@Exie: Your points are valid. I’d stick with Confucius’ comment that “a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.” I’d evaluate public policy in primary and secondary education by the metric “does it foster competition.” If the answer is “yes” then policy is moving in the right direction. If “no” try again! Fixing this mess and bringing quality educational opportunities to the greatest number will require sustained commitment to competition for students and the budgetary dollars they represent. We’ve already seen how well a monopoly works. I shudder to think how much money I will have spent on my kids education from pre-K through HS and all on top of my property taxes. :(</p>
<p>@Periwinkle. I believe I read than SPS accepted only 19 fourth form girls this year compared to low 30s last year and low 30s this year for fourth form boys. Clearly this would happen because of a higher than expected yield in 3rd form girls last year and hence the desire not to exacerbate an existing problem. Hopefully for many on this board the schools WERE very conservative and will have openings over the next couple of weeks.</p>
<p>@kraordrawoh</p>
<p>We did add it up - based on two children, and cried. You don’t realize how much money is going out the door when you’re doing it year by year. We would have a house that is completely paid off, vacations, two late model cars, and a fully funded retirement.</p>
<p>I hate that my tax dollars are not rebated back to me to help pay for having to replace my daughter’s lousy education with a decent private one. But therein lies the other rub. No matter how the voucher system works - if it’s not limited to parents in a failing district (we don’t have full accreditation) then the system will create what we have now - lotteries and waiting lists and people able to game the system. Even if it does work, I still contend the best schools will pick off the best kids and the remainder will be stuck with nowhere to go.</p>
<p>I do think some type of rigid accountability (including jail time for fraud and gross negligence) would be a nice incentive.</p>
<p>@Exie: I’d like to think that the flow of dollars created by a full-blown voucher system or even a full-blown charter system (2nd choice) will, over time, create supply. I struggle to think of an area in our economy where customers with money don’t find supply being created to meet and exceed their expectations. Just consider the cereal aisle at your local supermarket. ;)</p>
<p>@kraordrawoh, thanks for the links to “Avenues.” I can’t figure out if it’s not-for-profit or for-profit. (Son pipes up from the corner, “If you can’t figure it out, it’s for-profit.”) I would think that for tuition somewhere around $38,000, they could throw in lunch.</p>
<p>And you have to live in NYC. Probably meant for wall streeters’ clan.</p>
<p>@Periwinkle: That’s almost precisely the same as the private day schools in NYC unfortunately! :(</p>
<p>I have been reading this thread with interest but reluctant to chime in since I know my opinion will be rather unpopular, but I keep reading different threads that make me question the process so here goes.
I think besides the trend of many more people walking with their feet from their local publics the reason for such a huge percent of people on WL (and hopefully we will see a large movement off the wl soon) are people like this:
NMH or SPS
Just a quick question: would you rather go to NMH or SPS and why??
Why would anyone apply to such different schools???
Look at the Master list of acceptances and analyze where people are applying. They are all over the place. The schools are getting more applications than usual. They are waitlisting much more than usual and under accepting since they cant figure out the yield.
There have been such a lot written recently about how parents need to step away from the “hades” into the lesser known schools since not all schools are a fit for everyone etc. A lot of advice of thinking outside the box and going to lesser known (or absolutely unknown outside of a circle of parents with learning-disabled children). At least partially this advice is to legitimize their own experience.
BUT - a kid who is academically capable to do the work at a top tier school will absolutely flounder at a lesser school. Im going to leave the social aspect of schools out of my rant, and just talk about academics. Traditionally there is a reason why some schools are in top tier, some are in lower tiers. That reason is academics which goes with a sink/swim environment. The kids who cant do the demanding work (or some that have not been motivated to do the work) of the top schools go to schools a step below in academics. Those lower step schools are not to be ashamed of, they are some of the lovelier/nicer BS’s out there. They just provide more one on one support, have more checks and balances in terms of homework, etc, will accept the kids with slightly lower ssat/grades than top percent. Then there are yet still slightly lower step schools that are traditionally not as popular so to fill their classes they started taking kids with lower scores/grades, and through generations have become known as a place to send your kid if they are academically not up to par. Again nothing wrong with that, since not everyone can be an academic genius, and a kid who is not intellectually curious in HS may very easily bloom in college or beyond. Its just demoralizing for them to be in a school full of extremely smart kids. Then we have schools that have been set up to help kids with learning and behavior issues. Not severe issues, we’re not talking “holes” here, but still issues. And within all these schools there are differences between big/small, formal/informal, which allow for each family to identify their own style and fit.
I have seen families on these boards that are applying to the absolute top schools and the remedial ones. Why? Arent you doing a disservice to everyone by those actions? If your kids is “einstein” and you fully believe he will need enrichment courses at Andover (just an example dont bite my head off), why are you also applying him to NMH which helps kids with learning issues? Its normal to apply to a reach, target, safety, but those need to be somewhat in line with each other, not all over the place, since schools do look at fit.
Its perfectly “normal” to apply to non-top-tier schools if your philosophy is a wish for your child to have a level keel experience. But people here started lumping those schools with the top tier schools, thus creating a competition that is artificial.
Added to that stress is the FA angle, and there we have a situation of tons of kids on WL, that should have been admitted, and a reason for my agreement with one of the earlier posters on this thread that once April comes, there will be a lot of spaces opening up for WL.</p>
<p>Goodness knows I should have more sense than to jump into the middle of this . . . but what the heck! In response to mhmm’s post above . . .</p>
<p>I do understand what you’re saying, but I think things aren’t as “black and white” as you perceive them to be. Yes, School A offers multivariable calculus, while School B offers English as a Second Language . . . but they also have more in common than you realize. Boarding school is about a lot more than what goes on in the classroom. When you factor in sports, performing arts, dorm life, campus activities, you’ll find that schools from different “tiers” (and I hate that word!) aren’t as different as you might expect.</p>
<p>To take the example that you mentioned - NMH vs. SPS - well, that’s a question that I could answer, because my family visited both schools, and loved both of them! Yes, SPS has more advanced math classes. But it’s Alpine skiing program is being discontinued in a few years - and NMH has one of the strongest Alpine programs of any of the New England schools. For the kid who likes both math and skiing, that might make a difference. Performing arts? Both superb! Sense of community? Well, SPS has 100% boarding and NMH does not. But NMH has a student work program that encourages its students to take responsibility for each other and the school community. So, with regard to “community,” on a scale of 1 to 10, I’d give both schools a 10! Is there more pressure at SPS? Definitely . . . but is that the criteria to look to in deciding whether a school is a good fit?</p>
<p>I agree, not all students would thrive in both environments. But many would. And the same comparisons could be drawn with regard to many of the schools you dismiss as “lower tier.” If your kid is the exceptional student who has already begun studies in four different languages, or has completed calculus by 8th grade, or has already completed chemistry, biology and physics before even entering high school, then the so-called HADES schools might be the only good fit. But, for the vast majority of students, there are benefits to be had at all of these schools. Frankly, I have the utmost respect for the students who can see themselves doing well at a variety of schools - and who don’t limit themselves to the schools with the biggest names.</p>
<p>I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again (and again and again!): boarding school is about a lot more than what goes on in the classroom.</p>
<p>For a family more concerned about education than reputation, there may be good reason to look at a variety of different schools. And, as demand for boarding school grows (as this thread strongly suggests it will), it is likely that the families who can’t see beyond the big names are more and more often going to find themselves without any options at all.</p>
<p>Yes BS is not just about academics. Its about fit and feel and all those things one wants for one’s kids whether they are away or at home.<br>
But please read my post carefully if you are going to make a statement such as saying that I dismiss many of the schools as lower tier. Under no circumstances do I do that and would appreciate that you dont misquote me on that. I actually advocate for a kinder/gentler experience.<br>
If you are interested in an Alpine experience, by all means send your child to Loomis, NMH, Cardigan, Berkshire or some other powerhouses in the sport. But forgive me if I question a kids ability to do a full load of work at SPS and compete on the level some of the above schools compete.
And again, forgive me for repeating again - if you have a kid who is very smart, they will be badly served in schools that are set up to help kids with learning issues.
This is not about “brand”. Its about educating yourself about different options, and what works for what type of a kid, and not going into the process with rose-colored glasses.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I assume the poster who wanted to choose between NMH and SPS did not come from a pre-prep. </p>
<p>To candidates coming from local public systems, an average prep school (NOT one of the elite) would represent a huge step up in academic expectations. They may apply to SPS or Exeter as a stretch, but an average prep school would also be better than their default option.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I agree–but many public schools have become schools “set up to help kids with learning issues.” A prep school which offers support to kids with dyslexia or mild ADD can be much more demanding academically than the applicant’s other options. I think that the pool of parents willing to look at boarding schools now includes families who do not have generations of boarding school experience.</p>
<p>In response primarily to MHMM & Periwinkle:</p>
<p>We have no experience with BS, our LPHS is supposedly top notch, DC is supposedly top notch :), but he was rejected from PEA and PA, and WL at Hotchkiss & Milton. I originally liked NMH, didn’t really know about Loomis Chaffee but worried that the kids at these schools wouldn’t be competitive. Although, after reading CC for a bit I thought perhaps DC wasn’t quite such a standout 
</p>
<p>How can one determine from just interviews, tours and review of stats. if school is at a sufficiently competitive level. By HS in a public school system, the honors classes are populated not by kids with learning disabilities, in fact it is my understanding that if a student requires an IED, Individualized Lesson Plan, they cannot take any honors courses.</p>
<p>Anyway, MHMM stated many of my concerns for the lower ranked schools, yet Periwinkle states that these schools would still be a step up from the LPHS option (unless you meant only a lesser LPHS). Anyway, how can one really determine this if you or a family member/close friend has not attended any of these schools.</p>
<p>It is a very real dilemma. A thread on the Kent School where @Klements son ending up transferring even though he liked it bkz the school was not competitive enough can be a very real concern if one has a very high performing C who didn’t find a place for whatever reason at the most selective BS’s.</p>
<p>There are many well known and understood LACs that are excellent alternatives to HYP that are widely known–thus someone from outside the culture still seems to have known, tried and true choices.</p>
<p>Anyway, I am rambling but I think these are the concerns that many parents may have from outside the fold.</p>
<p>I think I agree that not all BS decisions are 100% about academics. My 7th grader DC applied, and got admitted to, Groton for 8th grade. However had she not been admitted, along with Deerfield, Groton and a smattering of other ACRONYM schools she was strongly considering Emma Willard for 9th grade as she was enchanted by the " you go girl" mentality of the school and the settings and extra-curriculars. On paper it may seem like an odd pairing, but to her, it made perfect sense. I supported her 100% either way.
Kids need to make choices that make them happy. After all, they will be there for a long time. Being in an academic powerhouse is not the “be all and end all”. Smart kids can be happy in many different environments, and do well in many different settings.
I for one would be very reluctant to criticize anyone else’s decision making process. Every parent does their best for their child.</p>
<p>We have friends at Loomis and it is very competitive academically, especially in the honors levels courses. Some schools, and I think Loomis is in that category- have lots of levels of classes. If you are in the top track, you’re with kids who are just as smart as those at the “top tier” schools. However, and this is a big however, the school decides who goes into those tracks. At our local public school, any parent can call and override the school’s math placement decision, and place their kid in “Honors Algebra 2” even though they don’t belong there. That doesn’t happen at most prep schools.</p>
<p>@mhmm – I think, having gone through Exeter and now having my daughter at a school “some” parents mocked as not quite as “good” as Exeter I can safely say that your assessment of the situation is antiquated at best (and I did read your post carefully).</p>
<p>There are many parents here with top students at HADES who are struggling, and many parents with lower scoring students at the same schools who are thriving. It depends on a lot of factors. But I can tell you - where there might have once been a case to be made that HADES served a more elite subsection of the population compared to some of the rivals, that is no longer the case. The application pools have grown so large that schools that parents would have turned their noses up at a few years ago, stopped being the safety and became the lifeline. The AP and Honor’s courses are comparable so I see people use phony euphemisms to explain their choices such as “Harkness”. Even in the alumni survey we’re saying the table is less important than the small class size and the discussion format of classroom discourse.</p>
<p>I’m amazed when people come to the boards looking for ways to justify their own choices and pump themselves up. What’s the point of that? </p>
<p>This constant pathetic need to group schools into categories demeans a lot of students on this board not looking to drink the HADES Koolaid. And a lot of HADES grads on this board quietly conceding in PM’s to each other that all that glitters is not (and was not) gold.</p>
<p>Only when we post on the boards to broaden the search and look for fit, some academic snob will yell “my online research” beats your “three decades” of experience.</p>
<p>So be it. Go to HADES or cram it down your children’s throats. But I’m rejoicing for the parents who looked broadly for schools that would nurture their full child rather than look for students who will maintain - on paper - their advertised stats.</p>
<p>This is sad. So sad. Unless you’re looking at a school that takes everyone that applies, those old adages just don’t hold water anymore no matter how much hot air gets pumped into it.</p>
<p>mhmm writes: “There have been such a lot written recently about how parents need to step away from the ‘hades’ into the lesser known schools since not all schools are a fit for everyone etc. A lot of advice of thinking outside the box and going to lesser known (or absolutely unknown outside of a circle of parents with learning-disabled children). At least partially this advice is to legitimize their own experience.”</p>
<p>@mhmm: I have absolutely ZERO experience with sending a child to BS (yet), so what do you think motivates my advocacy of non-ACRONYM schools? According to you, it must be because my child has a learning disability.</p>
<p>In another thread, mhmm notes that his/her children are at “top schools”. </p>
<p>This statement underscores the disconnect going on here. I (and I think many other parents who have been active on the forum this admissions cycle) am trying to blow up that particular model. Because I don’t believe in it. And I think perpetuating the language of “Tiers” and “ACRONYMS” does a disservice to pretty much everyone involved.</p>
<p>[/rant]</p>