<p>I’m not upset about not getting credit. <em>sigh</em> how many times am I going to have to explain it?</p>
<p>So the thread entitled " Is this fair"? was started by your evil twin? ;)</p>
<p>If you really didn’t care- you wouldn’t even think to mention it.</p>
<p>HisGraceFillsMe, I think you’re missing the point. Perhaps your school is disallowing it based on religion, but I would check. Find out if it would count if your church sponsored a clothing drive and you volunteered. I’ll bet that is community service. Normally, it has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with the definition of community service and serving an insular religious group is not considered community service. It doesn’t serve a community need.</p>
<p>HGFM: The policies at my school made exceptions for service organizations that had a religious founding but who are focused on providing services to the community. YMCA and the Salvation Army would fall under that guideline.</p>
<p>I just had to do CAS hours for IB because we don’t have a graduation requirement of service here. The IBO’s criteria are: 1. It has to be for someone less fortunate than yourself (I’m sure that’s worded nicer in their official nonsense but that’s the gist - i.e. just volunteering for free in an organization that makes money or something or playing with the kids in your neighborhood doesn’t count). 2. It must not be affiliated with any religious organization or include proselytizing. </p>
<p>No one had any problems. Religious activities were not counted whether they were through church, temple, or mosque. People may wear legitimate religious apparel (again, applied regardless of religion) at our school. This is not the same situation and there’s no basis for comparision whatsoever. These are two completely separate things. I expect you are permitted to wear a cross at school with no questions asked as well. It’s only not fair if someone else is working at a temple or mosque and getting credit. If the rule across the board is no religious affiliation, then that is fair, it is just a rule. </p>
<p>Part of the reasoning is that it is not a religiously affiliated program, and the other part is that the work only benefits the person’s community (and by extension the person) and would be done anyway. Therefore it does not fit with the goal of encouraging the student to interact with different segments of society and broaden horizons, blah blah blah. It isn’t the community service these particular requirements are looking for. Nothing more, nothing less. A tendency to view the system as everything working against just you is very demoralizing. If the rules should be changed, find a group of students who want them changed, form a convincing case, and take it to the administration. Show them why you are benefiting the community at large and why they should reconsider.</p>
<p>I think the school has a pretty clear description of what is and is not community service for their purposes.</p>
<p>Under * Religion*</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Our high school allowed for church hours to be used for community service (it was a private religion based school). However, they should have written some sort of disclaimer into their policy, because in many cases religious service does not count toward service based awards and scholarships. When the paperwork is submitted for these awards, theoretically the religious service should be backed out. That can be a big surprise and disappoinment for a student who has faithfully spent four years doing hundreds of hours within his church- only to find out he really only has, say, 50 that count. By the time he applies for the award, it’s too late to try to get additional hours. At any rate, it is something that he should know about ahead of time.</p>
<p>It could be that your school is just trying to make it easy on everyone and limit what counts to encompass the criteria used for the most service based awards and scholarships.</p>
<p>EK-I don’t know what school you got that from, but it’s definitely not mine, so I don’t know what you’re expecting me to gain from it.</p>
<p>You all have legitimate reasons, and I honestly do see your side. But I still believe that service should be considered service. I don’t care about the scholarships; I can get them from other things. I do not care about the hours-Again, I can get hours from other things. In fact, I probably will receive about 40 hours for doing my Senior Project.</p>
<p>Why do I bring it up? Because it’s wrong. It is absolutely wrong for my school to tell me that my church is not a community that needs serving. Maybe they aren’t less fortunate than myself, but does that mean that they don’t need help? Of course not.</p>
<p>Heck, if they’re going to go that route, no one should get hours for helping to clean up my school. My school isn’t an area of people that really need help. </p>
<p>Are you starting to see my side? I’m not worried about myself. I’m worried about future students who possibly won’t graduate because no one tells them that they can’t get hours for church activities and then they go in with all their hours ready to turn in and the school tells them, “Sorry, find something else to do in 2 weeks.”</p>
<p>This is a very interesting thread. I had initially been outraged on His Grace’s behalf because ZG’s hundreds of hours of community service through the church were allowed, but then I realized that she did things like grow, harvest and deliver (sometimes even cook) vegetables for the homeless, tutor immigrants in English, and supervise mentally handicapped young people in social activities. All of those are things for someone else’s benefit, but the church did provide the land for the vegetables and the space for many of the other things. Most of the people receiving the benefit were neither members of the church or of the same religion, so no preaching goin’ on. These were religious-based activities, but her school did allow the hours toward the CS requirement, so . . . The differences between schools/areas is fascinating to me.</p>
<p>*I’m worried about future students who possibly won’t graduate because no one tells them that they can’t get hours for church activities and then they go in with all their hours ready to turn in and the school tells them, “Sorry, find something else to do in 2 weeks.”
*</p>
<p>Who is waiting till the last quarter of senior year to do volunteer service for graduation?
This information I found is from Lakewood high school- I erred in assuming that the Lakewood in your ID meant that you attended Lakewood.
When freshmen enter a school and several times a year after that, at least if Ds inner city school is any indication, students and their families are apprised of graduation requirements.
I will agree that despite that, you will still have students who are confused about reqs.</p>
<p>What if we were to take religion out of the equation. Let’s say you belong to an organization dedicated to fashion. Now you lead classes for members of that organization on how to dress for various occasions. Would that count as community service?</p>
<p>Community service is more than just serving one’s community; it is more than just doing unpaid volunterr work for (the benefit of) a non-profit organization. It is helping disadvanted individuals, those in need, who are less fortunate than others, by providing them with skills or knowledge so that they/their families can improve their lives and become contributing members of society, or providing them with aid, food, clothing, to meet their physical needs.</p>
<p>I don’t limit the definition of community service to helping only the disadvantaged. In our area, there are lots of little creeks that feed the rivers that feed the Chesapeake so there are organized volunteer cleanups of them pretty often. That is community service.</p>
<p>I agrree, it also includes activities that will benefit the general public/community at large. My point is that it would not include activities that are soley for the purpose of teaching religious or spiritual instruction to one’s own church members.</p>
<p>Interesting question UCDAlum. If you are teaching disadvantaged kids to dress for success, I’d probably allow it. </p>
<p>I personally would be fine with counting service like food kitchens or clothing drives run by religious institutions. But HisGraceFillsMe is talking about teaching religion. This is not community service in any way to me. Not even a gray area.</p>
<p>I once had a discussion with a friend of mine about the concept of good works in adult. She argued that all the time I put into the PTA wasn’t good works because it benefited my kids too. I felt that the fact that my kids also benefited did mean it wasn’t also a good deed.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I live right down the street from Lakewood, but I actually attend a school that’s across town (for several reasons that I won’t go into right now).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Why not? If I’m not getting paid and I’m giving up my time to help others, I don’t see why I shouldn’t get hours.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I live right down the street from Lakewood, but I actually attend a school that’s across town (for several reasons that I won’t go into right now).</p>
<p>Also, when we meet for graduation checks like those you mentioned, our GCs only go over classes and tell us how many hours we have on record. They don’t ask us what we’re doing, and they don’t ever tell us what we can and can’t do. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Why not? If I’m not getting paid and I’m giving up my time to help others, I don’t see why I shouldn’t get hours.</p>
<p>mathmom, look at what I’m doing this way: the kids I teach are like my kids. If what I’m doing benefits them, great. If it doesn’t, maybe I’m doing something wrong. But the fact remains that community service should be community service. Just because the kids I’m helping aren’t disadvantaged and it’s only helping a section of the community, it doesn’t count? What about the kids that help the elderly? That’s only a section of the community. Or the kids that help deaf people? Or the blind?</p>
<p>There is a distinction - teaching the blind or the deaf how to better adapt to surroundings is community service. Teaching them bible verses is not. It serves no greater good for anyone to have instruction in religion. It is completely irrelevant to the community as a whole. It may make you feel good or make your students feel good as better Christians or Jews or Muslims or whatever, but that’s where it ends. Now if you were teaching those kids how to read, then it would be helpful to the community as a whole.</p>
<p>But by helping the blind/deaf/others, you’re not helping the community as a whole, are you? You’re helping the blind/deaf/other section of the community.</p>
<p>Also, while it may not be relevant to you, it is certainly relevant to those I’m helping. Me going out and teaching a child to read isn’t relevant to you either, but I would get hours for that.</p>
<p>Is it just me or this type of “community service” a horrible form of indoctrination.</p>
<p>“They love God and their Christian faith”</p>
<p>Are you kidding me? They are between 5 and 8!!! Do you really think they can comprehend difficult topics such as religion and god and make a decision about whether or not they are Christian or Jewish or Wiccan? They don’t even understand algebra and they want to understand the creation of the Earth. There’s a chapter in Dawkin’s book about this type of radicalism?</p>
<p>This “community service” reminds me of this. </p>
<p>[YouTube</a> - Jesus Camp Trailer](<a href=“http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_EKHK1C2IE]YouTube”>http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_EKHK1C2IE)</p>
<p>gottaloveucla: I agree absolutely. I just don’t really want to turn the thread into a battleground on this issue.</p>
<p>It’s interesting to me, though, how much those involved in what is essentially an implicit indoctrination process are blind to what they’re actually doing. You’re right - 5-8 year olds have no idea about the ideas being discussed. They’re there because of their parents. And to the extent that they are happy, it’s because their world view has been fully indoctrinated by their parents.</p>
<p>I agree with Dawkins’ argument that such indoctrination amounts to child abuse, but that’s a very contentious topic which I’m not convinced this thread is well-served by straying in to.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Um…yes, I do. You don’t have to understand algebra to have a religious faith. The two have nothing in common. There’s nothing complicated about being a Christian. You believe that Jesus died and rose again to save us from our sin. Period. That’s about it. Believe it’s indoctrination if you want, but I know it’s not. That’s all that matters.</p>
<p>Also, I have a strong suspiscion that no one would even consider saying this to me if indeed I was talking about Wicca. But that’s just me.</p>
<p>And as to that video…if that’s the only exposure you’ve had to the Christian lifestyle, no wonder you’re anti-Christian. Let me just tell you right now: I don’t know what religion those people are, but they aren’t Christian.</p>