agreed - if my friend’s child is a nescac level recruit in the spring of junior year, then becomes an ivy level recruit by fall of senior year, they shouldn’t be bound by a verbal indication they provided to the nescac coach prior to the ED process - because it definitely wouldn’t be “the right fit” at that point, if the students athletic prowess indicates otherwise. Would be silly to think differently imo
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Except by that logic it would be just as fair-game for a coach to drop an athlete if (let’s take a timed sport for ease of discussion) their senior times regressed from their junior times. I suspect you wouldn’t be okay if it were the coach dropping their support offer because of a slight downward change in performance characteristics on athlete’s part, right?
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I’m not sure we’re saying the same thing. You seem to be describing an athlete hoping/acting to improve their recruiting position even after committing (otherwise how would they move from not Ivy level to Ivy level). I’m not clear how one can do that practically and commit at the same time.
What I’m describing is more of a situation where no Ivy offers are given despite going through the process, the recruit commits to a NESCAC, then an Ivy offer comes late (based on prior recruiting that didn’t work out initially). That does happen and recruits need to do what’s best for them. Maybe thats what you’re describing. (In my sport, TFXC, that can happen based on late performances without the athlete taking any action except responding to a phone call).
From what I’ve seen these on the bubble athletes who make D3 commitments tend to stick because they start to see themselves as part of those teams.
(Edited to correct several autocorrects)
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Your question in the title of this thread is “Is it wrong?”
I’d say yes, it is wrong. Now it’s not criminal - your child won’t go to jail, get probation or be fined for it. There probably are not any super severe consequences for it. But that’s not what you asked.
It is wrong just like it’d be wrong for a coach to pull full support promise to a kid when they’d already verbally agreed to it if a better athlete comes along. That happens of course before the commitment is made, but it shouldn’t afterwards if we want the commitment to mean something in both directions. If you aren’t sure, then don’t commit.
Again, of course it happens. Lots of things happen. But is it wrong, as you ask? Yes.
D1 and D2 commits were never binding until the NLI was signed (and the scholarship awarded), and even then all it meant was that the athlete couldn’t play for a different D1/D2 school for one year. Now with the wild west the NCAA is, there are dozens of ways around that one year penalty.
IMO, it is not morally/ethically wrong. A lot of kids change before (and now after) signing the NLI, and even after my daughter signed, she was getting calls from D3 schools ‘just to let her know’ that she could switch and go to a D3 school without penalty. She didn’t switch, but she got a lot of calls. Some came to my phone and I’d say "Oh, she’s already signed her NLI’ and they’d try to convince me it was okay to switch.
I know a kid who committed to Princeton and switched to Army. Another committed to G’town and quit the team without ever attending a practice (but stayed at G’town). .Quite a few who started at schools and dropped out or transferred withing the first year from all divisions.
Coaches want players who want to be there, not ones who wish they were at an Ivy.
I don’t disagree with you. You only quoted part of my post, which mentions an ED application. So you’re taking it out of context. My very next sentence mentions kids changing their minds and that being ok.
So I do consider a supported through admissions ED application commitment to be ethically binding. But changing your mind in other instances is fine, in my opinion.
There is no NLI anymore (changed in 2024), so no one year penalty.
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i do agree with this in principle - but at what point in the process do you believe it becomes ethically binding? at the point the coach offers full admission support and the candidate accepts that overture? or when the ED application is formally submitted? or can the student even cancel an in-process ED application (presumably between November 15th± and mid-December. Details matter..
I’d consider it ethically binding when the ED application is submitted. To me, changing your mind mid-November puts the coach in a bad spot because you’ve taken an ED spot that he could have given to someone else.
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yep cause coach support means very little after ED - so if you are essentially taking away a slot and then “giving it back” by cancelling ur application after ED apps are due (but before mid-december notification), it’s of zero value to a coach - they can’t use it anymore. I would say if a coach offers support in September or before, kid says ok - as long as you back out before the November 15th deadline then coach can still use that slot elsewhere (albeit with some frantic scurrying around)
It is ethically binding the minute you say yes to the coach. At that point the coach is holding the spot for you and no longer wooing other athletes.
Things may change and the athlete may ultimately make a switch but commitments should be made in good faith and never as a back-up place holder. The intention matters!
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A lot of schools have a Nov 1 deadline. But once you’ve agreed to apply, that should be it. Presumably, the coach will not be recruiting for your position any longer.
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goes back to my original question / point TonyG - if kid accepts D3 offer of admission support in late summer/early fall, and doesn’t keep actively seeking out opportunities- but if fall performance warrants proactive Ivy or other D1 interest / offers.. then that’s a much grayer territory imo - to your point, the intent by kid wasnt to shop the offer, but kids performance improved significantly enough that they were now at Ivy / D1 level - shouldn’t be handcuffed by that D3 “commitment”
This is not always true. Plenty of schools have full coach support slots in non-ED rounds.
I’m not sure if you are talking about football, but if so, I could be persuaded to agree. That’s a whole different world in terms of recruiting and what is considered acceptable behavior, even in D3.
If a student doesn’t want to commit because they think their stock might rise in Fall of senior year (this can often be predicted), then they shouldn’t commit. Is it the end of the world if a kid breaks an ED commitment…nope. Are the ethics a bit questionable…yes.
Well said.
Separately, I’m surprised this thread has been allowed to remain open, because it all seems to be hearsay without substantiated facts.
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The ED is an agreement with the school, not the coach. The coach can’t accept you to the school so his promise doesn’t have much weight if the school doesn’t back him.
The ED rules allow you to withdraw it until it is accepted, which is often late November or
Dec. If the schools and the NCAA want to bind students, they have to put some skin in the game (Likely letter? early ED acceptance?) I realize most have something the student wants (a spot at the school) but they are asking the student to do all the ‘giving’. Why is it is moral or ethical promise on student’s part but just a ‘we’ll see if we really want you’ on the school’s part?
My opinion is it is not legally or ethically binding on their side until the student is admitted.
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I don’t think it’s hearsay or needs substantiation. It’s a moral/ethical question. I think I’ve a kid agrees to accept an offer at a school where they are offered an advantage in admissions, they should honor that. Obviously,some people feel it is still flexible.
I just meant that OP isn’t posting for a situation that they are experiencing, it’s about a ‘friend’, I agree the conversation is valuable
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the string went dormant for a month - I didn’t bring it back to life. But my original question obviously elicits real and visceral opinions. And very relevant to many - and not just for football - soccer, x-country, field hockey, etc any fall sport. What happens when kids performance improves enough in fall of senior year to move from a D3/Nescac type of recruit to IvyD1? what are the moral and ethical considerations of accepting “full coach support” at a WASP level school and then switching to Dartmouth, Duke or Penn in October ?
Honestly, I think this is all a bunch of wishful thinking. Realistically, even if some does improve significantly, elite teams are unlikely to have a spot left to give that late in the game. This is going to be even more true going forward, with many facing tight roster caps.
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Agreed. If the kid is not already actively speaking to these programs, the chances to jump from a D3 to a an Ivy or a school like Duke, which is P4, seems unlikely.
But I’ll chime in (again) to say that I think it’s unethical to do so at that stage of the recruiting cycle.
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