I only really know XC/TF, but it doesn’t strike me as that far-fetched if we’re talking about D3/Ivy. I know a kid now who would be an impact runner at Williams/Hopkins but their coach is trying to get the Ivies to pay attention to them. I wouldn’t be shocked to see an offer this fall from one of the weaker Ivies. But perhaps this kid will wait to commit at all before the ED deadline to avoid this issue. I think this kid is a very strong student, so they could probably get a tip even late in the game from a Williams or Amherst.
It is not impossible, particularly in time based sports, but unlikely of the coach has not “seen” you and it’s October. Occasionally it does happen, but most often because something triggers a domino effect, like a test score never materializing or something. Even in track/xc I think it’s unusual for coaches to have extra LL to dish out in October. Let’s keep in mind that Ivies are becoming more competitive, not less, in the post NCAA vs House world. If anything, Ivy coaches are benefiting from athletes who lost a spot at an even more elite program, not shopping around for kids who were on the bubble. Again, not impossible, but I think we will see this even less.
But is the Ivy paying attention? At all? Most Ivy XCTF visits occur in August and September. And those are given to recruits that they have been in contact with for a while. Does a big performance in October all of the sudden cause a seismic change in an Ivy coach’s recruit board? Probably not.
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I guess we’ll see. I have seen it happen in track/XC, because there pretty frequently are extremely talented runners who come to running late because they’ve been playing soccer their whole lives. Some of these kids are Ivy-caliber but wind up in D3 (for example, Keira Rogan at Hamilton) but others manage to woo Ivies late in the game. It is easy for coaches to see your times and ascertain the amount of mileage you have run/are running and extrapolate how good you could be with more mileage/better training.
I take the point about the settlement causing a trickle-down in talent to the Ivies, but the Ivies also are not subject to the roster caps and, depending on the school, may have leeway to get late LLs for kids with very strong grades and test scores.
But all of this is very particular to XC/TF.
No, but my impression is that most, if not all, control the total number of LL pretty tightly, regardless of timing, but I have heard of wheeling and dealing between coaches That is not to say kids are not welcome on the team should they get in on their own.
Some try that route and hope for a D3 RD fall back (which may require some “flexibility” on the athletes part) should it not workout. And back to the issue at hand, I recommend transparency with the D3 coach. Many will still want and welcome a likable impact athlete, regardless of much pull they may have at that point.
But if that is your position (which I disagree with) then I would submit that, in fairness, it should be fine under your rules for the Coach to drop the committed athlete in October and give the supported spot to a late-arriving better athlete. Just like the Coach, that dropped athlete would have a few weeks to find a supported offer.
To me that makes a mockery of the commitment. Why should ethical rules be different for athlete than coach? Why should the coach be held to the commitment if the athlete can renege with impunity? The NESCAC system is built on a two-way trust that commitments will be honored.
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If you read the rest of my comments, you’ll see that I agree with you. I think when a Coach offers and you agree to ED, that’s it. I could have made this clearer in this particular post. I’ll go back to edit it. Thanks.
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Sorry, my apologies. Maybe I misinterpreted because of some of the later comments by others. I though some were saying wild west until Nov 1
No apology necessary. I should have been clearer.
But the third leg of this stool is admissions, and it isn’t committed until the acceptance goes out.
This used to happen at Haverford all the time. The applicant would pass the pre-read because they were indeed qualified academically, applly ED, but admissions didn’t admit everyone who passed the pre-read.
If schools don’t want to allow applicants to withdraw ED applications, then make that the rule. Coaches might like that, but that doesn’t seem to be the rule anywhere; ED applications are allowed to be withdrawn.
I’m not sure that’s fair. I don’t think it happened ‘all’ the time. It’s imperative the student make sure a coach is offering ‘full support’ thru the admissions process and that they understand what that means. They can figure this out by asking questions, such as how many students who have had this same level of support historically been accepted. You will get a different answer for that at MIT vs Williams for sure. I haven’t had an athlete at Haverford for awhile, so don’t know how the process works there now. But, at the NESCACs and Ivies it would be rare for a student who applied with full coach support to not be accepted.
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Yes it does. We saw it first hand with our older daughters best friend with cross country. Late bloomer, and qualified for Nike / Foot Locker Nationals in early November. Apparently there are Ivy and other T25 academic school coaches - as well as Power conference coaches - at these events meeting and directly engaging with uncommitted kids. She had been speaking with Nescacs, but hadn’t committed to one. She met a coach from a top academic state school at Foot Locker, and one month later was committed - it moved very quickly. So just to be clear - yes, it unequivocally occurs -
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Ivy and top D1 coaches are typically at FL and NXN to watch seniors they’ve already recruited and juniors they want to recruit.
Yes, it can happen occasionally that an Ivy coach has a slot remaining that late. It’s unusual but it can happen.
The situation you’re talking about though with a non-Ivy is a bit different as those coaches face fewer constraints and so haven’t typically “filled up” their recruiting classes at that point.
The logistics of going from a committed to D3 recruit to the Ivy likely letter carries some risk at that point, as presumably in the situation you’re describing there’d have been no pre-read and no OV.
I’m not sure it’s necessary to build an ethical rule for these sorts of edge cases. I tell recruits to act in good faith, communicate, and make decisions they’re comfortable with. If things change it’s probably better for everyone if the recruit chooses the path that works best for them.
I know of weird cases where recruits committed and had likely letters in hand but still went on official visits with the Ivy coach’s support. No way would I generalize from those unique circumstances to say other recruits should do that. (ETA: both found the grass wasn’t greener, which is what the Ivy coach expected).
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