<p>Does anyone know what the difference between a tier 1 and tier 3 school is?
Were these categories created by U.S. News & World Report?</p>
<p>No, U.S. News and World Report does the rankings. I don’t know who created Tier 1, 2, 3 etc, it’s kind of an arbitrary system and the terms are thrown around a lot on CC. Essentially it’s a short hand for referencing the selectivity of the schools you are applying to, with Tier 1 being the MOST selective schools, and then moving down through the tiers. </p>
<p>Sometimes though selectivity is conflated with quality, which may or may not be true, and this is where the tiers start to get a little murky. The only thing that seems to be agreed on is that the Ivy League schools and Stanford are Tier 1, and then everything else falls after, except when state schools like University of Michigan are Tier 1 and everything falls after, except when… you get the point. Also there are tiers within tiers I guess. For example, Harvard is Tier 1 of the Tier 1. Penn is sort of Tier 2 of the Tier 1. Except if you disagree. </p>
<p>Basically, how much they “matter” depends on your perspective and how generally obsessed you are with ranking schools and how important it is that your child go to a school that is “recognized” as the top. Just keep in mind that at least on CC these definitions can be pretty fluid and are mostly used to give people a frame of reference so they know what level of selectivity you or your child is interested in and/or qualified for. Also remember that because a Tier 1 school is considered by some to be “the best” that doesn’t mean it’s the best for your child. Two totally different things.</p>
<p>And, what’s funny is that some teeny schools that could be labeled Tier 3 or 4 sometimes have specialty departments or majors that make them the leading place in the country or the world for that training. New Mexico Tech in Socorro, NM is the place to go for several types of specialized education.
From their website:
IRIS-PASSCAL opened in 1998 when New Mexico Tech outbid Stanford and Columbia to house the National Science Foundation’s seismology center.</p>
<p>Prince William attended the ground-breaking of the Magdalena Ridge Observatory in 2002. New Mexico Tech and Cambridge formed a partnership to build a world-class observatory. The facility’s 2.4-meter telescope officially opened in 2008.</p>
<p>The Institute for Complex Additive Systems Analysis (ICASA) opened in the late 1990s to study, research and combat cyber-terrorism and computer-based crime.</p>
<p>The National Cave and Karst Research Institute was launched in the early 2000’s. The facility broke ground on a new building in late 2008.</p>
<p>Ain’t Harvard, but I suspect the graduates get jobs . . . real jobs.</p>
<p>As said above…some Tier 3 schools have exceptional programs and get their grads good jobs. Some schools will always be Tier 3 (or 4), even tho they have some excellent programs, because they won’t likely ever be able to offer a wide range of majors with strong programs. However, if they are strong in a desired major, then they can be a great place to go.</p>
<p>On the other hand, some Tier 3 schools can be commuter schools which can be frustrating for a resident student who wants a full campus experience.</p>
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<p>Now, this is clarity for you:)
There is more to Tier 1 than the 8 Ivy League schools plus Stanford (how 'bout MIT and Caltech and Chicago and…) and Penn is considered by some to be a “lower Ivy” but not “tier 2 of Tier 1.”
I’d say that Tier 1 schools are those ranked 1-100 by USNWR, arbitrary as some of these rankings may be. Don’t forget that Liberal Arts Colleges (LACS) are ranked separately from universities, and some are every bit as good and every bit as selective as the top ranked universities.
The rankings become fairly meaningless when it comes to specific specialties such as engineering or business.</p>
<p>Has anyone been able to figure out exactly what criteria USNWR uses for their rankings? My son will be attending what we consider a tier 3 school, but it is ranked as a tier one.</p>
<p>What are tier 3 schools anyway? Michigan schools would be the ones I’d recognize, so what’s an example of a tier 3 school in Michigan? Like Michigan Tech, or Eastern?</p>
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<p>They supposedly explain it here-
[How</a> We Calculate the College Rankings - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2009/08/19/how-we-calculate-the-college-rankings.html]How”>http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2009/08/19/how-we-calculate-the-college-rankings.html)</p>
<p>I haven’t read this, but this is probably the best bet. I think peer assessment is the biggest percent. I think it takes into account selectivity, grad rates, class sizes, etc. and weights each of them.</p>
<p>Edit- Of course this is assuming your question was a question and not a rhetorical commentary :)</p>
<p>Tier 1, 2, 3 and 4 were created by US News and World Report. When they first created their ranking system they made the top 50 Tier 1 and the next 50 Tier 2. The elimination of Tier 2 was a recognition that the differences between Tier 1 and Tier 2 were negligible. </p>
<p>@ Kajon: They explain right on their site how they calculate the rankings: [How</a> We Calculate the College Rankings - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2009/08/19/how-we-calculate-the-college-rankings.html]How”>http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2009/08/19/how-we-calculate-the-college-rankings.html)</p>
<p>Qwetythree: You can see right on their site what they consider Tier 3 schools: This year Tier 3 starts with rank 128 and is on page 6 for National Universities. [National</a> Universities Rankings - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings/page+6]National”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings/page+6)</p>
<p>I heard that for some majors it does not matter. You need to research specifically for your professional plans. Well, there is group of well to do who are going strictly for education. In case of unlimited resources why not apply to Ivy’s and other elite schools? Again, it all depends on a goal for final product - college degree.</p>
<p>I think the major difference is the quality of students at the schools. While all schools attract some high achieving, highly motivated students, very accomplished students, such students are rare at the lower tier schools, but are the norm at schools that are highly ranked. This influences course content, how courses are taught, and the opportunities available through ECs, internships, etc.</p>
<p>While all schools attract some high achieving, highly motivated students, very accomplished students, such students are rare at the lower tier schools, but are the norm at schools that are highly ranked. This influences course content, how courses are taught, and the opportunities available through ECs, internships, etc.</p>
<p>I agree with this to some extent, but I also have to disagree a bit. Many accomplished students who fall in that “gray area” of not qualifying for any/much free financial aid, and also having parents who can’t afford more than tuition and books often have to commute to a Tier 3 or 4 school. </p>
<p>With some states charging tuition in excess of $10k per year and some states following that trend, I can see this happening more and more. I can see many parents saying that they can only afford $5-8k a year towards tuition, a Stafford will pay the rest & books, and the student has to commute.</p>
<p>The opportunities for internships & co-ops really has more to do with the school’s location. If a Tier 3 or 4 school is located amongst companies that offer such, those students will have that opportunity (i.e. UAHuntsville)</p>
<p>I do agree that sometimes at a Tier 3 or 4 school, you will find some/many students who may not measure up to a strong stats child, but that can also depend on the major. This also happens at state flagships. Some of the lower stats kids can be found in easier majors, while a larger concentration of higher stats kids can be found in the sciences and engineering majors.</p>
<p>Ok, so here’s my question. What is meant by the Baccalaureate Colleges -North (south, west, east)? I mean, I understand that it’s schools in those regions that offer Bachelor’s degrees only, but does being high on that list equate to quality as a general matter?</p>
<p>"I agree with this to some extent, but I also have to disagree a bit. Many accomplished students who fall in that “gray area” of not qualifying for any/much free financial aid, and also having parents who can’t afford more than tuition and books often have to commute to a Tier 3 or 4 school. "</p>
<p>From what I’ve seen as a person who’s consulted at some Tier 3 and 4 schools, there definitely are accomplished students at such schools, but often such students attended weak secondary and elementary schools. They had high grades at such schools, but didn’t get the academic background that students got who went to stronger schools.</p>
<p>Consequently, the 3rd and 4th tier schools aren’t able to give their students the type of assignments that students get at higher ranked schools. For example, S, a junior, is having to write an 80-100 page paper in one of his required classes at his LAC, which is a tier 2 that has assignments that were as tough as I had in the Ivy league and in grad school.</p>
<p>I know students in a tier 2 public who are in S’s major, and for their senior project, they have to write a 10-page paper, the longest paper they’ve ever had to write.</p>
<p>I had to write my first 10-page paper in high school. It was an excellent public school. I know, however, students who went to top prep schools who wrote 50-page papers in high school. They thought Harvard was easier than prep school.</p>
<p>Tier 1, tier 2, etc., may not have been created by USNWR, but they are the biggest proponent of such a system. They are in the business of convincing the public that such rating systems are valid, important, and maybe even necessary to determine a schools’ worth- thereby rating the worth of the graduate from the school. The more the public believes their sales pitch, the more information they sell. They want us to believe the real world of employment sees graduates rated by tiers. I believe the pitch is particularly effective on status-driven prospective applicants. There is an old joke about that- Harvard is well known for turning out lawyers- and we all know how highly regarded lawyers are! Ha. An old joke but shows the reputation of a school may or may not be accurate. Personally, I take ratings with a grain of salt when provided by a company that depends so heavily on the popularity of their rankings.
And, as Zooser points to, there are many ratings within ratings. Best School in the South, Best BA school, best masters’ school, etc. So if a school is the “best in the North” does that make it better than Harvard, if we agree H is in the North? Obviously a conflict there. How can a school rated #1 in a region fall behind another school in the same region on the bigger list?
Their ratings are much like the broad “you will meet a stranger…” -one needs the circumstance twisted to meet the prediction.
And as others have shown 1 school does not have only 1 major. Some majors are taught better than others. Some students are better than others.</p>
<p>I’m not a general user of the USNWR site, but went there to look up “tiers” of a few of the schools S applied to. Very surprised to see one of them labeled as a “1” and also very surprised to see one of them labeled as a “3” - interesting.</p>
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I thought Harvard was easier than prep school too, but I never had to write anything longer than a 10 page paper in high school. However we did a lot of writing - a three to five page paper every single week in English and we had to figure out the topics on our own. Interestingly other than my honors thesis (100+ pages) I never wrote anything longer than 12 pages at Harvard. I regularly wrote papers that were well short of the suggested page length and got good grades and even compliments on my succinct writing!</p>
<p>I think USNWR’s divisions into Masters and Baccalaureate universities is very confusing and have no idea how they want us to compare them. There’s fairly widespread agreement I think that the top levels of the LAC list are just as good as the top of the National University list. Except Harvard of course. ;)</p>
<p>NSMom - How can a professor expect that amount of work from an undergrad? Do the students not have any other classes? Is this the only assignment/grade for the whole semester? How does the professor even hope to grade a 100 page assignment? You said LAC so I read that as small class size…but even 15 100 page papers is unwieldy and unreasonable to be reviewed, fact-checked and graded in the time-frame required. I don’t even want to get started asking questions about 50 page high school papers…</p>
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<p>I have no idea how to compare Master’s universities and National Universities. Its so confusing.</p>
<p>I had to write a bunch of ~25-page papers at Harvard, despite being in a non-honors track of one of the easiest majors (Psychology). But I have no doubt that a top prep school is harder – you have to take 6-8 courses at once instead of just 4, and for the most part, you don’t get to pick them!</p>