<p>Probably that Yalies get compensated for their GPA which was probably harder to achieve in the first place. </p>
<p>That’s some good data.</p>
<p>^^^
It might also be true that Yale applicants had higher MCATs and other elements of their application (which I suspect might be true). We’d need complete data to draw any conclusions as to how the admissions officers would view GPA and UG institution in a vacuum.</p>
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<p>True. Dbate, do you have any stats for average MCAT per school vs average Yalie MCAT?</p>
<p>I can tell you that for MD/PhD admissions your undergrad degree does make a difference. (DH reads these for his med school.) It’s not that you can’t get in from a no name school, but that they are going to expect higher grades and/or scores to make up for the fact that they don’t know if A’s are easier to come by at Podunk U. MD/PhD admissions are even harder than Med School admissions BTW.</p>
<p>“It might also be true that Yale applicants had higher MCATs and other elements of their application (which I suspect might be true).”</p>
<p>I’m guessing that they do have higher MCATs, and that’s due to the type of student that Yale attracts as well as the quality of the courses at Yale. I’m guessing that since --from what I saw at Harvard – most Yale premed students get accepted to some med school – their courses and other opportunities at Yale are designed to help students prep for the MCAT, and students also are more cognizant of what they need to do to be stellar med school applicants. </p>
<p>At schools like Yale, students in general don’t sweat over whether they’ll get into med school. They worry about whether they’ll get into a top med school.</p>
<p>At lower tier colleges, it’s considered a big accomplishment to get accepted to any med school.</p>
<p>I had many undergrad friends at Harvard who were premed. Only one didn’t get into med school, and she was a rarity in that she had some truly terrible grades on her transcript due to too much partying. The others managed to balance their social lives with their academics.</p>
<p>For top-level PhD programs in my field, the tier1 vs tier 3 is more than a grade correction-
a 4.0 and several “best student I’ve ever seen” letters don’t mean much if no one knows of any student from that school who was particularly successful- these people need to also have some really impressive research or at least some glowing letters from people who have had more exposure to first-rate students.</p>
<p>I think the skinny of it is that only the best kids get into Yale. So, these people are going to have better MCATs and “others” by /default/, even WITHOUT the Yale education or Yale-educated branding.</p>
<p>Therefore, that data set comparing GPAs doesn’t mean what you are trying to say it means.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I would disagree with Northstarmom that you could conclude Yale classes prepare you “better.” Star researcher, top of his field, etc. does not always equate to great teacher (in fact, I have seen them to be pretty much totally unrelated). Who is to say the prof at a lower-tiered univesity might not be a better communicator or fit one’s learning style better? Again, the texts being used in these classes are similar if not the exact same ones. And again, most on the “pre-med” track are not taking super discusison-based classes where quality of peer is going to influence your learning experience much. </p>
<p>Therefore, you can ONLY logically conclude that Yale=higher percentage of quality students=students predisposed to do better on the LSAT/gain leadership positions/etc. Yale=better classes is much more out of left field.</p>
<p>NSM, you wrote
</p>
<p>But PG wrote
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<p>I know OP is talking about UG. But seems to me there is even disagreement for the med school too.</p>
<p>“Furthermore, I would disagree with Northstarmom that you could conclude Yale classes prepare you “better.” Star researcher, top of his field, etc. does not always equate to great teacher”</p>
<p>I agree with this. At the same time, however, I think that because such a high percentage of students at places like Harvard and Yale are taking science courses to prep for med schools, the courses are more likely to contain info to help prep students for MCATs. </p>
<p>I’m not suggesting that the Ivy courses are better or that the teachers are better, but that the Harvard, Yale profs may make sure that their courses cover some material that is well known as being on MCATs or as being necessary for the students to learn the material the MCATs will contain.</p>
<p>I’ve posted elsewhere that the day that I switched instructors at Harvard because my economics instructor was the most boring, dry prof I had ever had was the day he won the Nobel Prize for economics.</p>
<p>"The med schools in the US pretty much teach all the same stuff with the same level of rigor. There isn’t a lot of “prestige” in that world, the same way there is in the law world (with the T14) and the business-school world. "</p>
<p>Sure, the med schools all have to teach the same stuff. However, students from Harvard and Yale med schools are regarded more highly than are students from med schools affiliated with less prestigious institutions. It also is much harder to get into med schools like Harvard and Yale. </p>
<p>The bottom line, however, is that all med school grads will be called “Doctor”.</p>
<p>Dbate,
In you list of GPA’s in post #59, I did not see GPA=4.0. Where that would fit? It is hard to imagine that UG from any lowest ranked college with GPA=4.0 and reasonably good MCAT would not get into ANY USA Medical School. Most pre-meds goal is just that simple, to get in anywhere in the USA. Some (very few) have higher aspirations. Those who eventually graduate from HMS would not get paid any higher as practicing physicians as others and in most cases end up working in the same office and paid exactly the same. However, most elite medical schools and elite UG cost much more, resulting in much higher student loans.</p>
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<p>Regarded more highly by whom? The residencies take kids from Harvard Med and State U Med and put them right next to one another, starting at square one. And there is absolutely not one bit more of status that accrues to the Harvard Med grad on the first day of residency.</p>
<p>Yes, but doesn’t going to a prestigious med school help you land the competitive residency in the first place?</p>
<p>I remember reading a while back that one hospital administrator said at the top med schools, no blemishes and you’re offered an interview. At the lower ranked one, you had to have a high point (high USMLE scores, top of the class, etc) to be offered an interview.</p>
<p>let me just ask one simple question. </p>
<p>If there is no difference between a Tier 1 and Tier 3, why are so many student trying so hard to get into a Tier1 while tier3 accets 75% of the applicants?</p>
<p>Close relative was a Yale grad (graduated with honors) who went to med school. His roommate went to a local state university. He said they compared what they each took in their science and math premed courses and found the courses, work required, and texts used to be nearly identical. He said he felt bad to have wasted his parents’ money since he could have achieved the same outcome (entering the same med school) if he would have gone to the state school. If students are good enough to get into Yale or any top 20 school, it is doubtful they would not be equally successful no matter where they attend. I believe that is what the Princeton study found and what Andrew Abbott (occupational sociologist) reports from his work.</p>
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<p>I think you’d be surprised if you got out of the bubble of elite college admissions to realize that the majority of students in this country really don’t aspire to the top tier of colleges. They choose their colleges based on location / distance and cost and if they think they’ll get a job at the end of the day. They don’t spend any time worrying about whether it’s Tier 1, Tier 2 or Tier 3.</p>
<p>"His roommate went to a local state university. He said they compared what they each took in their science and math premed courses and found the courses, work required, and texts used to be nearly identical. He said he felt bad to have wasted his parents’ money since he could have achieved the same outcome (entering the same med school) if he would have gone to the state school. "</p>
<p>It’s not necessarily true that he would have ended up at the same med school. What I don’t think he’s appreciating is the depth of knowledge about medical school application and about other things that exists at places like Ivies. At places like Ivies, it’s easy to find out what one has to do to get into top medical schoosl. That’s not true at mediocre schools, where it’s considered an achievement if a student gets into medical school anywhere.</p>
<p>In addition, he probably got a deeper education when it comes to his nonscience courses, and probably had more extensive opportunities in his college ECs. </p>
<p>If, though, all he wanted out of college was to be able to get into medical school, he’s correct that he wasted money going to Yale. He could have achieved that result by attending a much cheaper school.</p>
<p>Dad II- my D applied to one Tier 3 school out of 11. She has heard back from 4 schools. In at 3 Tier 1 schools, deferred at the Tier 3 school. She can’t figure it out. She thought the Tier 3 school was a safety both academically and financially.
The Tier 3 school told her she can send in additional material to strengthen her application. She is a transfer student. Graduated 43 out of 600 in her HS class with an GPA above a 4.0. She has a 4.0 in 2 yrs of college coursework. Her SAT scores are above the 75% of Tier 3 school. The literature states you only need a 2.5 to transfer. She is calling them tomorrow.
The reason she is even considering this Tier 3 school is location and strength of a particular major and cost.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Boy that’s odd. </p>
<p>However, does this tier 3 even consider HS stats when the student is a transfer? </p>
<p>Since she has a 4.0 for college credits, it does seem odd that they are asking for “additional material” to strengthen her application. What would they want? </p>
<p>This sounds like some kind of odd mistake, or the program is impacted. Which school is it?</p>
<p>Edited to add…I see that the school is UCFlorida and your D is out of state. Is that the issue? Is UCF like UF which doesn’t take many OOS students? </p>
<p>My D found out she was deferred today. She can’t figure it out. She is a transfer student with a 4.0 from a CC in Florida. Her HS GPA was above a 4.0. Her SAT scores are from the old SAT and are a 1350. She has gotten into schools that are ranked much higher. She is OOS. She can’t figure out what she could send them to improve her chances. She thought UCF was going to be a sure thing.</p>
<p>(I have a dumb question…you also say that she went to a CC in Florida. Why did she go to a CC in Florida as an OOS resident? or is she an int’l?)</p>
<p>Dad II,
"If there is no difference between a Tier 1 and Tier 3, why are so many student trying so hard to get into a Tier1 while tier3 accets 75% of the applicants? "</p>
<p>Here is my opinion. I know non-working mom who is being introduced as “Such and such, Harvard trained lawyer”. She is at home with kids, does not work, but Harvard is still attached to her name applying that she is superior to the rest of general population. One of the reason why Palin is being bashed is because she is outside of that, did not go to Harvard and such. Some value this more than any $$. For others (like me) it is very superficial and demeanning. Again everybody is entitled to their own opinion. My own D. said she does not understand why to go to all these elite Med. School, if MD in the US means the same, graduating from HMS or off charts ranked at the bottom one. Her criteria is completely diff. She just wants to be close to home and preferably in non-urban surroundings. I hope she will get her wishes.</p>