<p>I am using my son’s username to ask this. I have been told by several people that because most good careers require a graduate degree, it is more important where you go to grad school than where you go to undergrad. Is this true?</p>
<p>The reason I ask is that we have limited resources. My son has $40,000 in a uniform gift to minors account, but I have no other money saved for his education. Our family income is $60,000 a year, and I have 2 other children, one of which will be overlapping for 3 years with my older son. Therefore, I want to use my son’s money wisely. For that reason I am hesitant for him to apply to the $40,000 per year schools such as Vandy, Ga Tech (out of state), Washington U of St L, etc.</p>
<p>Since we live in Virginia, I am praying he gets into UVA early decision.</p>
<p>I would enjoy devil’s advocates telling us why we should apply to expensive schools.</p>
<p>I think you have the right idea, particularly considering your limited resources. The final degree is really the only one that really matters. In addition, you are very fortunate to live in Virginia, where the state schools are so great. Good luck to your son!</p>
<p>If your son gets into UVA or Wm and Mary, it would make sense to go there considering the in-state savings.</p>
<p>Otherwise, you should apply to the big price-tag privates and see what kind of financial aid package they offer. You can use a financial aid calculator on the web to estimate your EFC or you can ask the financial aid office to give you an estimate. You may qualify for a lot of gift aid. During the three years of overlapping enrollment, your gift aid will be increased. The financial aid office will consider how many children are college at once. (This will PARTIALLY offset the cost.)</p>
<p>PhD programs and some Masters programs are fully funded. They offer assistanships. Professional schools are generally not fully funded. The financial issues may not be as bad as you think during grad school.</p>
<p>I think choice of undergrad school is very important, probably more important than grad school. It is the springboard to grad school.</p>
<p>So I think your son should apply to the Virginia Publics and also a few dream colleges out of state. See what happens re financial aid.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input. I would love for him to go to W&M (my alma mater), but he is interested in biomedical engineering, so that’s out. I think UVA is the only school in the state that offers biomed. </p>
<p>I think it’s weird how much more difficult it is to get into good schools now than when I was in college 25 years ago. I was accepted at UVA and W&M with a 1260 SAT, 3.8 gpa, and very few extracurriculars. My school did not have AP or honors classes, math consisted of Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, and “Senior Math” (which I didn’t take). Our only foreign language choices were French and Spanish. I had the highest SAT scores in the entire class of 435, and was the only person to apply and go to William and Mary, even though it was only 45 miles from my high school.</p>
<p>I hope what you said is true. For undergrad, I plan to attend a school on a full-ride (the school I will attend next year has been determined), and then try for the University of Chicago for grad school.</p>
<p>colegehelp said a lot of good things, although the financial issues with law school and medical school can be huge issues.</p>
<p>Sure, if you do well at a no name school, it’s possible to get into top graduate and professional programs. U Va isn’t a no name school, although i don’t know anything about there bioengineering, so it’s even better for you in some ways.</p>
<p>I would say that you should balance cost with quality. Obviously, paying $40K a year for Big Name Private Univ. isn’t worth it if you can get a free ride to Big Name Public Univ. But, if it’s only say a few thousand more a year for the better name, I’d say go for it. </p>
<p>But major shouldn’t be your biggest consideration. Odds are he’ll modify his goals at least a little bit throughout his college career.</p>
I don’t think its true. While some degrees require a credential such as law or medicine, engineers do just fine with a BS degree. Most people in good jobs in business do not have an MBA or other advanced degree, and even if your son DOES want to get an MBA the good schools will be looking for several years of good business experience prior to enrolling; they want students who can bring real-world understanding to the classroom.</p>
<p>Here’s my pitch for going to the best school you can. First off, what the people around you do has a lot of influence. Some psychologists argue that peers are the MAIN influence (see, for example, the book “The Nurture Assumption”). If you go to a school where everyone expects to get good jobs and are doing internships, interning in Washington, etc. then it becomes the norm and its what you do also. I know kids from top schools like Stanford and everyone simply takes for granted they’re going on to great things. If you go to mediocre State where the kids are just interested in passing a pleasant 4 years (parties, classes with little homework, hanging out with friends) this tends to become the norm as well. I’m not arguing that a well-motivated and talented student can’t do well at State, its just that it would involve swimming against the tide rather than being carried along towards success with it. A few months back PBS had a documentary “Declining by Degrees” about the hands-off impersonal atmosphere at some large publics, and if you didn’t see it then you can find info about it by using google; I’d suggest taking a look.</p>
<p>And at the better schools you get benefits that may not show up on the transcript but are valuable nonetheless. Did you read the book “Tuesdays with Morrie”? The talks with Morrie wouldn’t have happened at mega-U where classes have 200-500 students and the only personal attention you get is from a grad student who is 25. Morrie at the mega-U would have had his hands full with his grad students, working on research, etc and the last thing he would have done is met weekly with an undergrad. Some students thrive at big U’s of course, and I bet Cal and UCLA turn out thousands of satisfied grads each year. But some students would benefit from a more personal environment and you’re not going to find many of these without paying.</p>
<p>I’m not saying the only good schools are expensive ones since as you know UVA is a nugget. Research schools, look at some of the ones mentioned by Loren Pope in “Colleges that Change Lives”, figure out where your son would fit and get a good education. And I want to emphasize that last point because FIT is important. Rankings aren’t the end-all, they’re just one measure. Get one of the books about college admissions and learn how to figure out the factors that go into fit. I doubt a student would find Vandy and GaTech equivalent schools!</p>
<p>I also advocate applying to private universities - the sticker price might be bigger, but in a lot of cases their large endowments cover a lot of financial aid. It doesn’t hurt to try and at least see what happens. Your son might need the satisfaction of knowing that he has more than 1 option.</p>
<p>I also think it’s important to go to a great school for undergrad. That will lead you to your first job, which is your springboard for your career and/or graduate school.</p>
<p>Lots of good ideas here. I’d like to add another dimension to the discussion. </p>
<p>I have three kids. One is extremely inner-driven and has always been so since birth. He can tune out a crowd of 10,000 while he focuses on minutia that fascinates him. The next one is extremely social and so easily distracted that he can forget to finish his dinner if his phone rings. The third is right in between. It takes some doing to cause her to lose focus, but it can be done and she may never look back. Each one of these kids needed a different undergraduate environment. </p>
<p>My point is that when thinking about such things, we need to take into account where a particular kid will thrive, or if not thrive, then at least do well and be able to keep up their motivation to carry on into post graduate studies. </p>
<p>Btw, I know nothing about UVA, so I am not making any judgements here. I’m not talking about schools, I’m talking about students.</p>
<p>UVA should be his choice if he gets in-state, it has great academics and decent social scene, I have been told that biomed engineering is basically the same as chem. engineering plus a few bio classes in undergrad, grad school is basically a requirement for biomed engineering so it would be safe to go chem. engineering undergrad and then biomed in grad… I agree that there should be a cost+quality balance, i mean it wont help to go to like the univ. of wherever with a 4.0 just b/c you live in whereever and its really cheap but in that case choose a school that has what your looking for at decent price… also ive been told that if you have mid 5 digit assets in a students name it destroys hope of need-based aid but you should check that out b/c im just a 17 yr. old kid lol</p>
<p>UVa early decision seems a good strategy. But as some posters note, top privates do offer good need-based financial aid packages, and with your income level your son should get some good financial offers at schools like these. Once you have two in college, those offers will get better. So I would construct an application list that would have reach, match and safety schools; privates and publics.</p>
<p>As for the general question about the importance of undergrad schools, one variable identified above is the individual student. If she is a hard-working, motivated student, most selective schools, big or small, more or less expensive, can provide a platform for grad school acceptance. If she needs more encouragement, or tends to follow the lead of her social cohort, a more intellectual atmosphere, perhaps at a small or medium-sized school, could make a real difference.</p>
<p>Does Virginia have reciprocal tuition deals with states where the flagship uni offers bme? That might be another low-cost option.</p>
<p>Vanderbilt, Wash U and Georgia Tech are not better than UVA. In fact, I would say of the four universities, UVA is probably the best. Given your family income, I think you would be eligible to quite a bit of need-based aid. </p>
<p>To answer your question, yes, undergrad is really important…and UVA and W&M are awesome undergraduate institutions.</p>
<p>I agree…add me to the list of expensive-school graduates who think it wouldn’t make sense for a family in your position to pay for Vandy or Wash U if UVA or W&M are options. It’s worth applying just to see if a fin aid miracle occurs, but unless your kid is absolutely miserable at the thought of staying in-state, I wouldn’t pay anywhere close to the sticker price under these circumstances.</p>
<p>Thanks, guys. We are really lucky to live in Va where we have very prestigious schools. They are pretty expensive in-state compared to other states, but still much cheaper than private. The reason we were considering Vanderbilt, GT, and WUStL is that my son is interested in biomedical engineering, and UVA is the only school in Va that offers it. He may apply to these others just in case he doesn’t get in to UVA</p>
<p>I don’t believe he needs a school with a “biomedical engineering” major. As was mentioned, basically he just needs to take the courses that will be prereqs for grad school. I am not a science person, but W&M doesn’t have a “premed” major, but of course they still send students to med school. They major in physics or chem or bio and take the required courses (like an English course). I imagine it would basically be the same deal. Again, I know nothing for sure, but I imagine he could get the right courses at most schools.</p>
<p>Also, as a VA resident and current student, I can’t really see a valid reason to leave the state for undergrad, unless there is merit money or financial aid making the cost equal. With a little summer work from the son, that $40,000 could get him out of a VA school with no loans to pay, and it is possible grad school could be covered (I know some medical related grad school work can be covered).</p>