@Pizzagirl lol I never said that I was dehumanized when a white person got a tan that would be laughable and mean that whites had that much power over me…you are taking my statement out of context.
@Pizzagirl I am not “forbidding” anyone to do anything. I am saying that if you steal from a culture that is not your own then that IS cultural appropriation. Do whatever you want with your life…if you want to culturally appropriate go ahead just no that what you are wearing has deep racial implications and people will be upset/annoyed with you. I can’t forbid any of you to wear something, I don’t have that power. Although I want you to know that stealing something from a different culture is “wrong” especially because of the racial/historical implications that come with it. What some of you don’t understand is that POC are still facing the after effects of being enslaved and oppressed. In fact we are still being oppressed. Just look at institutional racism.
“When white people in the US wear dreadlocks, the power of this symbolic resistance is reduced to an “exotic” fashion trend wherein the oppressor is able to “play,” temporarily, an “exotic other” without acknowledging or experiencing any of the daily discriminations black folks have to face.”
That may very well be. The issue becomes whether others are “allowed” to imbue different meanings to things than you do, or whether it’s imperative that you be the thought police and ensure that others do things for only the reasons you approve.
Here’s a concept to chew on. if your wearing dreadlocks serves as your mental symbolic resistance to white oppression, how does my (hypothetical) wearing of them change that meaning for you? It seems that you’re actually choosing to give all the power to me in that instance.
In all seriousness, why can’t I wear / eat / listen to whatever I want just for aesthetic reasons? To use an example before your time, I can listen to Bob Dylan because I’m all about the Beat poets and making social commentary on society and war, or I can just like the sound of the music. I can wear flowers in my hair because I’m remembering the Summer of Love in San Franscisco in 1967, or because I just think I look pretty that way. I am not obligated to imbue things with meaning I don’t want to.
I fully agree with this, but I also fully agree that such a thing as “white privilege” exists. A white person doesn’t have to ask for this, or even want it: it is freely given. The fact that it exists is a big problem for our society. I believe that anyone who looks at this with an open mind will acknowledge it.
Now, that is different from the whole thing about cultural appropriation. I think that most of us have grown in our understanding of such things, but I would also hope that, as Erika Christakis so memorably said, people would recognize that there is a difference between a little girl wanting to dress up as Mulan and an adult female wearing an eagle feather bonnet paired with scanty clothing. One is a question of innocent admiration, the other is…not.
“I am not obligated to imbue things with meaning I don’t want to.”
You are white. You have the privilege not to.
"I am saying that if you steal from a culture that is not your own then that IS cultural appropriation. "
I am 1/8 Irish Catholic, 1/8 German Catholic, 1/4 German Protestant, 1/4 Polish Jewish, 1/4 Latvian Jewish. What, specifically, is “my culture”? I wasn’t raised with any particular cultural traditions from any of these backgrounds aside from pretty generic secular Christmas and Easter. And bagels and lox. What cultural things are “mine” and which aren’t? If I’m “stealing” when I (hypothetically) wear dreadlocks, why am I not “stealing” if I wear a beret or eat Thai food? I’m asking serious questions btw.
You have just as much right as I do to wear what you like for the reasons you want to. You can wear dreadlocks because it’s symbolically meaningful to you, or because you simply like the look. You can straighten your hair if you want to, and don’t if you don’t want to. I don’t think you understand what a sign of weakness it is to give your power away and let others ascribe meaning to your choices. What happened to say it loud, say it proud?
So, getting a tan is something white folks have been doing in the last 6 years to " look cool " , and somehow that is cultural appropriation ? My white Irish skin as well as my whiter child’s Scandinavian skin go to great lengths to protect us from tanning , but working outside makes that hard to avoid entirely , but as long as we are at it, my Irish ancestors were enslaved , but not one of my ancestors enslaved others.
If a person of color dyes their hair blonde and straightens it , is that also cultural appropriation ?
@ilje62 usually with Cultural Appropriation (same with racism) there is the group that has Oppressed and the Oppressed. If someone from the oppressed group dyes their hair and straightens it that isn’t cultural appropriation. It is not cultural appropriation because they are trying to appease/fit in with the dominant culture. You and @Pizzagirl bring up how your ancestors have either not had slaves or been enslaved. Like @Consolation said you both still had/have white privilege.
@3idek3 Honest questions for you: Given your interpretation of the significance of dreadlocks in your post 79, do you think its okay for people of color who are not rastafarians to wear dreadlocks? I’m also curious as to how you define people of color, coming from a mixed race household myself? Do you differentiate between a white person who is tan because they work outdoors all the time and someone who gets a fake tan?
I think part of the problem with defining what is cultural appropriation is who gets to do the defining in particular instances, what is considered symbolic or “owned” by a specific culture. Your interpretation will defer from mine or someone else’s based on not only race but on other factors like gender, age, experiences, setting, etc.
Your examples of henna and tanning I find interesting because, although I get the point you want to get across, neither is something new in the past 6 years. Henna has been popular for awhile outside of its native settings, not just a recent phenomenon, and the same is true for tanning. Neither just popped up in the past 6 years. Instead, my guess is, given your age and experiences, you’ve become aware of it amongst your age group in the last 6 years as you’ve grown more aware of the world around you with age and experience. Neither is “new” just like the bootie thing isn’t new to 2014.
Black Kids Being Kicked Out of School For Wearing Dreads/Cornrows:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/05/tiana-parker-dreads_n_3873868.html
http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word-94
http://jezebel.com/5813105/boy-banned-from-school-for-wearing-cornrows
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jun/17/school-ban-cornrow-braids-discrimination
Dreads = Hippie? Met Boxer Braids:
5 in http://www.wikihow.com/Become-a-New-Generation-Hippie
http://www.hngn.com/articles/181236/20160222/boxer-braids-is-the-latest-hair-trend-any-different-from-cornrows.htm
http://jezebel.com/white-people-are-rebranding-cornrows-as-boxer-braids-1765012240
“I think part of the problem with defining what is cultural appropriation is who gets to do the defining in particular instances, what is considered symbolic or “owned” by a specific culture. Your interpretation will defer from mine or someone else’s based on not only race but on other factors like gender, age, experiences, setting, etc.”
I agree wholeheartedly with this. Which is why I made post #81.
“Given your interpretation of the significance of dreadlocks in your post 79, do you think its okay for people of color who are not rastafarians to wear dreadlocks? I’m also curious as to how you define people of color, coming from a mixed race household myself? Do you differentiate between a white person who is tan because they work outdoors all the time and someone who gets a fake tan?”
- Yes, as long as it’s blacks who are wearing dreads. Rastafarians were black.
- People of color includes people who aren’t white. POC includes mixed races.
- No, I can’t. Although, at least with my age group and my moms you can’t usually tell. This again is why cultural appropriation is so hard to define.
Seems to me that the “cultural appropriation” in the case of this style of braiding is being committed not by the people who wear their hair braided, but by the idiots in the fashion industry and gossip rags who seem to have the attention span and sense of history of a gnat.
Kids being kicked out of school for having cornrows or “afros”–I mean I ask you: how the hell is a black kid supposed to wear their hair??? What’s left?–is racism, pure and simple.
BTW, check out the hair:
@3idek3 , I find your comment an interesting one regarding mine and Pizzagirl’s " white privilege "
I don’t want to derail this thread , but I really don’t agree with that theory. Maybe white race as a whole in this country have had more opportunities than minorities , but my personal experiences , including those of my parents and former spouse are exactly the opposite of privilege .
When we were in Japan dying your hair blond was very popular with the teenagers. It’s an …interesting look.
Thanks for laying out your opinions, @3idek3. I’m glad we found some common ground to agree on. 
- Don’t you think rastafarians could take issue with other blacks appropriating dreadlocks outside of their religion? Don’t you think some POC where dreadlocks for fashion only? Going back to the video you linked how does that fit into the questions: Is it a genuine representation? Is it a sacred item? Or does being a POC exclude one from having to answer those questions?
- Where do latinos/hispanics fit into your definition?
Oh, I don’t disagree that I have white privilege insofar as I don’t get followed around shopping malls, stopped by police arbitrarily, etc. I just fail to see how putting pressure on white people not to wear dreadlocks solves any of those things. It’s a distraction from the real issues of racism.
It is sort of the classic the house is burning down but you’re focused on whether you forgot to take your vitamins that day. You’re worried about something that has little / no impact in the broader scheme of things.
@lje62, I think you are not understanding the type of “privilege” described by the theory. One piece on the subject that contains food for thought:
@lje62 I do believe in white privilege, again depending how its defined. I am privileged because no one assumes I got into a good college because of my race. I’m privilege because no one crosses the street when they see me walking down the sidewalk at night. I’m privileged because police don’t stop me for no reason. That’s a few ways I’m privileged that have nothing to do with socioeconomic circumstances.
I don’t get the linkage between “I have white privilege” (which I do) and “therefore I am obligated to defer to non-whites’ assessments of things” (as if non-whites are a monolithic group anyway - I must mean “those who presume to speak for all non-whites”). Seriously, who died and appointed any of us arbiter of what (insert ethnic / religious / gender) group thinks?