<p>I think I’ve entered the twilightzone .
A student with parents who speak Spanish , has an obvious advantage when taking Spanish class. I don’t see how this is so difficult to acknowledge. </p>
<p>I didn’t say the UC system should change its policy , all I’m saying is this is a prime example of de-facto discrimination . Thats it .</p>
<p>A student grown up in an English speaking household obviously has no advantage in English courses right? Two of which are required for the UC general education requirement. It’s not discrimination. The duty of education is to TEACH. Either way, whatever language you grow up learning, the UC’s purpose is so that you learn a little of an additional language.</p>
<p>I’m not flaming you, I’m objectively countering each of your cries of being disadvantaged or discriminated against. Your new statements still carry little logic to them. I’m not sure which high school you went to but a majority of high school graduates I know (and even middle school for that matter) are well above being “lucky to be able to read and write.” </p>
<p>Yes, the UCs are state schools and they do more than enough to cater to California residents including extreme preference to CCC transfers, Blue and Gold plan, resident tuition, etc. While UCs are state schools, they are some of the best universities in the nation. The idea that they should cater to people that are “lucky enough to read and write” as you say is ridiculous. Keep in mind, CSUs are also state schools that cater to California residents that do not have a language requirement. My guess though, is that you want to attend a UC for the education quality/prestige. Guess what, if you want a better school, you’ll have to put in the work.</p>
<p>Lastly, your analysis that math is easier to catch up than taking an introductory language course is false as well. If you were extremely behind in math, you would need to take multiple courses to even qualify for a UC transferable math course including trigonometry, elementary algebra, etc. All the UCs are asking from you is one post-high school introductory course in a foreign language. Again, by your reasoning, I could cry discrimination that I can’t pass my transferable math course because my mom didn’t give me “Hooked on Math” while I was a kid while other kids’ parents did.</p>
<p>Edit: I just realized you used examples where second generation immigrant students and students with parents who speak foreign languages are at an advantage. Your complaint is that the state schools should cater to state residents first. Who says second generation students and parents with foreign languages aren’t residents? They just have the benefit of having parents who teach their kids what they know just as all parents do in any subject (language, math, sports). Your complaint in itself generalizes that any student who knew a 2nd language must be some sort of “foreign” student who is putting “American” residents at a disadvantage – this in itself is discriminatory and racist.</p>
<p>Now you have to assume that said student didn’t receive a quality English education in primary school . My problem is my CC doesn’t offer anyway to ease into a language, its basically master the equivalent of 2 years of a foreign language in 4 months or fail .</p>
<p>For me, I should of just done my language at a CC that splits up the IGETC language requirement into 2 semesters . I quit a fun, full time job just to make sure I could get my IGETC done, so understand if I need to vent that my first No Pass grade on my entire CC transcript( aside from a couple of AR from WAY back, remember to drop your classes) is in a language class that simply goes too fast .</p>
<p>belkster…</p>
<p>Good point , I should of phased this better . I just wish their was a slower paced language class available. Since for the student who doesn’t place into transferable math he can take a lower class.
Awe, I just had an epiphany , I was lucky enough to place into a UC transferable math class, so unlike students who have to catch up and take 2 , 3 math classes to get to we’re im at, I get to take one class and be done . </p>
<p>Ok, point understood .
New question, can I do my IGETC after I transfer . My UC’s letting me in without IGETC done, but I still need to make up the language portion .</p>
<p>Wow dude are you really whining about taking 2 extra foreign language classes? Maybe that Chilean kid deserves to beat you, if you’re this weak-minded.</p>
<p>You can try to flip this around if you want , but my point is no student should be at an advantage based on their heritage . It’s bad enough that students with more money have access to tutoring many of us just can’t afford . I could go on , but many of you are too elitist to pay attention to anything I’m saying .</p>
<p>Think about how many advantages students already get based on who there parents are . Students from well off households get to go to school full time, and if they have trouble they can hire a tutor . Other students like myself have to work full time, get NO support from family and if I’m really struggling in a class I ether have to drop the class or get a F . </p>
<p>I’m not one of those students who writes in their personal statement about how sad of a childhood they had, or who kicked out who . Tell me, how many of you have worked a 72 hr week ,and after your 12 hour shift you still found a way to get to class . If I had anytype of dependable family I wouldn’t of had to work so much and I could of had the language requirement done . But I live in the real world and I’ve had to work since 16 .</p>
<p>Not that the personal statement will ever matter as much as the GPA . I can’t tell Davis I would of had all my pre-reqs done if it wasn’t for me having to go back to work .<br>
As for the CSU system, for some reason they get screwed over as they educate 3x the students with around the same amount of state support .</p>
<p>@OP: Quit your whining and just do your classes. It’s whiners like you who don’t get anywhere in life. Just freaking do the class and move on!</p>
<p>I know a number of students who are several generations into being American citizens that speak a second language at home. Some people take pride in their culture and like to maintain it.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that you CAN test out of the requirement. You are choosing to ignore this fact (that proof has been posted for) and you have yet to post anything that says if one is a foreign nationality, they automatically get a pass on the language requirement (as well as provided a link). Most people in this thread are not flaming you. They’re pointing facts or asking for additional information beyond what is coming off as a whining rant simply because you are not good in language classes. If you would provide more support for your stance, I’m sure many of us would start taking you seriously.</p>
<p>I will reiterate that you can test out of the language requirement. Foreign students who do not have English as their first language must take BOTH a language proficiency exam in their own native language AND English. And then they might have to take an English placement exam (same as yourself) even after taking the English exam.</p>
<p>I ask again: please provide a quote and a link to the document it is from that says exactly what you are claiming rather than continually posting how “unfair the world is to you because you can’t get a decent grade in a language class.” I already provided you with quotes and links in my previous post that one is able to test out of a language. I politely request that you do the same to give your stance more credibility.</p>
<p>"Satisfactory completion, with C grades or better, of two years formal schooling at the sixth grade level or higher in an institution where the language of instruction is not English.
"
This is the taken from my CC’s list of way’s to do the IGETC’s language requirement .
As WRITTEN this allows a student to just skip doing a language based on there national origin . </p>
<p>I didn’t mean this to become some silly debate on how me not getting a good grade in French makes me a lazy idiot .
As for the state of California, I graduated from a high school that somehow found a way to offer 5 languages, yet had a graduation rate of 40%. Way to put your priorities in order !</p>
<p>So now it’s not just people with different heritages you’re going after, it’s anyone with any sort of advantageous background whatsoever. You can stop the pity party of one, and projecting your anger unfairly on other people, because your shortcomings and failures in life are all based on you. I’m a child of a single mother that came here as a refugee of the Vietnam War, worked since I was 16 as well, supported myself since then, and paid my own way through college. I have more adversities I can list too, but that’s not the point.</p>
<p>Have I made decisions I regret? Definitely.
Do I think things would be easier if I had a more “well-off” upbringing? Probably.
Do I wallow in the fact I don’t have that? Not for a second.</p>
<p>Having disadvantages is a part of life. Every single person no matter their background or upbringing has some sort of trials and tribulations. Yes, they’re unfortunate, but everyone deals with them. If you think this is discriminatory, then I gotta tell you, life is the most prejudice entity out there. While it’s understandable to be upset that your life situation isn’t the most optimal out there, projecting your failures and anger onto other people and blaming them is completely ridiculous and unreasonable.</p>
<p>Edit: You do realize they’re not skipping a language based on national origin right? They had to learn that foreign language. When they transfer to a UC they also have to meet English requirements including proficiency examination and also English courses 1A and 1B at a minimum. So in total, that’s two languages they need to be proficient in and minimum 2 courses with that “foreign” language to them which is English. In your case, you’re fluent in English and the requirement is to take one semester course in a foreign language; you don’t even need to be fluent or take a proficiency test for it. If you do the math, they’re actually required to do far more work than you, so count your blessings.</p>
<p>Here’s the link from a CC with this policy</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.wlac.edu/counseling/IGETC_checklist_06-07_112106.pdf[/url]”>www.wlac.edu/counseling/IGETC_checklist_06-07_112106.pdf</a></p>
<p>FYI this was manly meant as a kind of thought experiment .
Instead of being that, it just became a kind a flame war .</p>
<p>A thought experiment? Jesus Christ man, why didn’t you say so? We all just thought that you were trying to convince yourself that you were disadvantaged so severely that there was no chance of redemption. We apologize.</p>
<p>No; this whole thing was still laughable. Trying to draw conclusions from false premises is laughable. Your excuses are laughable. Your disregard for grammar is laughable. You are laughable.</p>
<p>There has been no flame war. Only people laughing and attempting to show you facts.</p>
<p>The IGETC agreement you linked to is four years old. However, if you had actually read the document you linked in its entirety, you would have found this:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Note the bolded portion. Proof that you can test out of the requirement regardless of your nationality. This is from your own linked document. Your argument of discrimination has no grounds. You need a better thought experiment with a point of debate that cannot be so easily disproved. Ignoring facts does not make them not true and does a disservice to your supposed thought experiment.</p>
<p>I was too lazy to link to an IGETC agreement for this year .
Here
<a href=“http://www.smc.edu/projects/26/igetc.pdf[/url]”>www.smc.edu/projects/26/igetc.pdf</a></p>
<p>Yeah, in theory I could just test out of the language requirement . Idk, I just don’t see the point of it to be honest .</p>
<p>IGETC agreements can and do change from year to year based on course offerings. And the one you just linked to is for SMC, not WLAC. Which campus are we looking at to find some form of discrimination in “the way things are worded,” as you put it earlier in the thread?</p>
<p>However, this one also has an even more detailed section about what can be done to meet the requirement:
</p>
<p>I have bolded all that do not require actually taking a class.</p>
<p>The fact that you can test out (thus having the same option as other students) is the point that proves there is no discrimination. Unless you can provide some document that says that a student is exempt purely on the basis of their nationality (and not because of actual demonstrated proficiency in a language other than English), then there is no discrimination.</p>
<p>If testing out was not possible and there was written proof that your nationality was the reason and foreign students were exempt based on their nationality alone, then you would have a plausible debate point that there is discrimination at work.</p>
<p>While it is a legitimate concern that studies are difficult when one has to work, think about this: You are still able to take the time to discuss this on an internet forum. Why not take that extra time to study?</p>
<p>I think many were right that this thread was created less out of real belief of actual discrimination and more out of a dislike of the requirement (I’m not buying the “thought experiment” line, sorry). It grasps at straws to try and find a way to discredit the requirement simply out of personal taste. The requirement is minimal at many CCCs in recent years and several majors may recommend a language, but do not require it. Avoid those that require it.</p>
<p>Making threads that accuse an institution of discriminating when they clearly are not is unethical and really does not speak well to your character. This is an incredibly serious charge to make. Making it on false grounds is unseemly. Just be honest that you dislike the requirement and do not understand why it is required because it is not an area you excel in. Not everyone does so you’re not alone.</p>
<p>I am sorry you are struggling. I mean that sincerely and I wish you the best with meeting this requirement in a satisfactory manner.</p>
<p>Yeah, lets go with I just don’t like the requirement . For me I feel like its a another filter to keep certain students out, students who are great academically aside from not being exposed to a foreign language . </p>
<p>I still think it can be interrupted as discrimination since if you weren’t exposed to a foreign language at a young age , your going to have a very hard time learning it now . </p>
<p>Of course this can be countered with a good language tutor, but if you can’t afford a language tutor your out of luck again . Socio-economic discrimination isn’t recognized, you get to check a few boxes on the UC app about it and you get maybe one automatic email about how their are so many resources to help you. But if you say something crazy like " I’m applying to your campus for next fall, unfortunately I will have to drop a pre-req class to go back to work, can you give me an exception " you’ll get a cold shoulder . The vast majority of students who go to college come from a soci-economic standing which allows them to focus on school . </p>
<p>[University</a> of California - UC Newsroom | College Freshmen Have Family Income 60% Above U.S. Average](<a href=“http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/9066]University”>http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/9066)</p>
<p>But If I started a thread saying that the UC as a public university system should enroll higher numbers of disadvantaged students I would get flamed again . I quit my job, and spent a very serious amount of money to try to pass french , and its not going to happen . And now the teacher, at the point in which the class gets insanely difficult , says if you’ve taken French before the class would be easy , and if you haven’t it will be a challenge . Now if only I knew this day one, I could of saved alot of time and money .</p>
<p>ITT: Other people presenting a counter argument based on facts and reasoning is flaming. I’m done with this thread. The TC refuses to acknowledge that their own inability to pass an introductory class to be eligible for some of the best schools in the nation/world is no one’s fault but their own. This thread is nothing more than an attempt to garner sympathy for TC’s “pity story” but finding none, thinks everyone else is unreasonable and elitist. TC, maybe you should read your own username.</p>