<p>Just to think out-loud
Since the UC system exempts students with a national origin ,of a country that doesn’t speak English as its primary langue, from the foreign language requirement… Wouldn’t this be discrimination based on national origin, which, SHOULD be illegal under federal law .</p>
<p>Think about it, lets say you have 2 engineering students, ones from Chile , the others from Idaho . Now this student from Chile would be able to focus on the units needed to complete his major and, since he’s from Chile , would be able to skip taking a foreign language . The student from Idaho , since his national origin is American, is now at a significant disadvantage since he has to take 3 or 4 language classes the Chilean student doesn’t have to take .</p>
<p>This is just a thought, I can already hear people saying " but taking a foreign language is a great experience, blah blah blah". Still the way the requirement is written it would still technically be discriminatory under Federal Law .</p>
<p>To people in other countries English is a foreign language. I think that should count don’t you? The whole point is to be exposed to a different language than the one you already speak.</p>
<p>How much harder do you think it is for an engineering student from Chile to pass classes that require academic English? How many English classes, and ESL classes do you think a Chilean student would have to take to be prepared enough for college writing?</p>
<p>Could you please provide a link to where you have read that nationality alone will grant one a pass to the foreign language requirement? Link and quote of the relevant portion, please and thank you.</p>
<p>All of the information I am finding (and that I already knew of previously) allows for every student of any nationality to take an exam to prove competence in a language and to test out of it for the general UC requirement. Also, students who do not have English as a first language are also required to pass an English exam on top of a language other than English proficiency exam. Let’s also not forget that only a few majors require upper-division work in a language.</p>
<p>So with the current information: No. It is not discriminatory because everyone has the opportunity to test out of the language requirement.</p>
Several of the individual UCs have something akin to this statement for undergrad as well as way to satisfy the requirement:
Many do require meeting with an advisor, though. However, my experience has been that you will often be allowed to take an exam to waive the language other than English classes. Add to this, not all majors require foreign language past the entrance requirement. Some majors may require you to take certain classes regardless of proficiency because of the research that is being done (upper-division classes where documents in a foreign language are studied immediately come to mind).</p>
<p>No. It just saves time and money in having to test someone as to their fluency in such language.</p>
<p>Aren’t there ways US students can get out of taking language courses as well? The foreign student does have to come up with evidence of competency in English (TOEFEL) so s/he does have a second language. Kid with AP level often get out of language requirements. Other things like 4 years of a language or a certain SAT2 score will release you too. Or take the college language test to get out of the requirement.</p>
<p>"Satisfactory completion, with C grades or better, of two years formal schooling at the sixth grade level or higher in an institution where the language of instruction is not English.
"
Thats from my CC list of additional ways to satisfy the IGETC foreign language requirement .
This isn’t about saying " well its very hard for a student from Chile to learn English ". Your assuming his or her school didn’t have proper English instruction, plus if he or she moved to the US( or has a travelling family) . OR take a German student, most German’s know a good amount of English . My point is, the way its written clearly favors students from a non-American background . </p>
<p>It isn’t fair for me to have to take 4 quarters of a language I have no interest in ( and see my GPA go to hell), when another student with a different backround can just take a fluency exam and skip it . This gives a clear advantage to second generation immigrants as theirs a good chance they’ll know enough of the language they speak at home to pass a fluency exam( or at least have a very easy time when taking the language course ) . The fact is my GPA is screwed since I didn’t grow up with a background which would educate me in a non- English langauge .</p>
<p>And Kender, the majority of American students who can test out of a language are second generation immigrants . While its great to know a second language since your parents speak it, its blatantly racist to allow it to be an advantage once you get to college . My rant is that my GPA is screwed , when I take my language class the best grade i’ll get is something like a C, for a more competitive school that C is going to matter .</p>
<p>UC’s don’t waive the language requirement for a sutdent simply because of his/her nationality. An international student still has to prove that he or she completes three-year language class with C or better grade in high school. That being said, it is definitely NOT discrimination in the language requirement. The whole point of the language requirement is to make sure a student able to understand or know at least one other language. For those international students, they’ve already done that by studying English as a second language. For a student like OP, who I assume was born in the States, if you finish three-year foreign language in high schoo, you fufill the language requirement already. But most likely, you did not do that in HS, according to your ranting. Bottom line, don’t always put yourself in a disadvantage position. Think positively.</p>
<p>What if your HS didn’t offer a good language program, or you weren’t college bound in HS, thats the point of transferring . </p>
<p>Any teacher will tell you its far more difficult to learn a language as an adult . The point is the requirement as is shows a clear preference to students with certain backgrounds . </p>
<p>And how many students who have to take the language in college will even care to remember it a few years after graduation . It SHOULD be a option, not something needed .</p>
<p>Specifically for a student such as myself, who has to for the first time take a language in college , its like hitting a brick-wall . If I didn’t take French Pass/ No Pass I would have to deal with a F on my record . Even the teacher admitted that if this was your first time taking French it would be a very freaking hard course . Most of the students that don’t drop the class took French in high school and are just doing a review . </p>
<p>To be fair apart of the blame goes to my CC for craming the entire IGETC language requirement into a super 5 unit class from hell . Several other CC’s offer languages as 2 2.5 unit classes, which allows you to learn at a reasonable pace .</p>
<p>My plan right now is to privately take a language in a non-college setting, and then take it at college . The problem with this is I’m go to have to spend a significant amount of money . Eh .</p>
<p>You use the word “racist” a lot. Languages have almost nothing to do with race. As far as your concern goes, if you seriously can’t be bothered to learn another language then you don’t belong in the top 5% (that’s what the UC system is) of educated people in California.</p>
<p>This is ridiculous. just because many international students have been taking English since elementary school does not mean THEY should be disadvantaged. Any American can take 4 years of foreign language in high school and test out of the language requirement. That is what the internationals have done - and more.</p>
<p>So what I gathered here, is that since the OP does not have the capacity to do well in his language class, he’s calling for some sort of “race riot.”</p>
<p>None of the points of your arguments make any sense. Being exempt from the language requirement of UCs requires a proficiency examination that the international student would have to pass. Also consider, any sort of undergraduate degree requires at the minimum, English 1A and English 1B on top of the TOEFL examination in English to even be accepted to the university (which is a foreign language to them).</p>
<p>Then you bring up the point that it’s inherently discrimination if you didn’t grow up in a background with a foreign language, went to a high school that did not offer “good” foreign language courses, or didn’t have the foresight to plan for college. That is not discrimination – that’s called life. Everyone has adversities of some sort, deal with it.</p>
<p>Imagine if I wanted to be a transfer but because my parents never taught me math, my school didn’t teach math well, and I didn’t have the foresight to pay attention to math classes in school and then call out discrimination because the UCs wouldn’t accept me because I couldn’t pass a math class. Ludicrous.</p>
<p>The CA education system isn’t one that even makes a good attempt to teach students foreign languages before high school . </p>
<p>The last time I check the UC were STATE SCHOOLS, meaning first and foremost they need to serve the students of THIS STATE . I’m just being real, your average student coming from a CA high school is lucky to be able to read and write . Now while its not all that hard to catch up in reading in math, it’s INSANELY difficult to just catch up in a language .</p>
<p>You had ample opportunities to take a number of foreign languages in High School. You didn’t take advantage of those opportunities and expected to not be disadvantaged. Get over yourself kid.</p>
<p>You must not be passing your foreign language class this semester. I admit, it’s difficult. I’m getting my first B in Spanish 2. However, the initial problem of this thread was that in comparison to the rules for international students, having to take a foreign language just isn’t fair. Many people have already pointed out the similar tribulations for international students, which, respectively may actually be much more difficult than the measly few years we have to take, with the exception of certain majors. (I’m one of those majors.)</p>
<p>Also, your opinion of the CA education system is subjective and you’re attempting to use that to your advantage. Most high schools require that you take two years of a foreign language for a reason and yes, that is an attempt. Just because you’re struggling with the subject doesn’t mean that they did something wrong. I honestly learned very little math in high school, but I didn’t complain when I had to spend hours studying for it in college. </p>
<p>The point is, you’re not doing well so you’re using any excuse possible to feel better about why you can’t pull an A in this class. I’m assuming here, but your ignorance leads me to very little other possible reasoning. Learn to be diverse, accept the learning process, and realize that America, especially California, is one of the biggest leaders and advocates of diversity. Sorry.</p>