ISO urban, merit-awarding school for UNDECIDED son ‘25 [MD resident, 3.8 GPA, <$50k]

College Search & Lists
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Glad I was able to help with your other student. Hope they’re having a great experience.

There’s already been so many suggestions - so that’s great.

With a 3.8 and a 1330, here’s a few more that may work in addition to many fine choices I see above.

Some people get money at Pitt if they apply early. I don’t think yours would so it’d be over budget but you never know. You get a quick response back - it’s urban. 59% caucasian. I’d say if you have an extra spot, it’s worth an app.

U of Arizona will definitely hit budget. It’s too big - but has an Honors College with a dining hall on the bottom and gym/counseling center adjacent. Sometimes Honors Colleges can help a student make that large campus smaller. I think he gets into Honors there. 47% caucasian…large latino population. Beautiful, manageable campus.

College of Charleston will be over budget but could get about there with merit. If your sons SAT score goes up (or try ACT), google Charleston Fellows (a subgroup of Honors - if he won that, your merit goes way up. It’s a small urban campus in the tourist zone. The CDS shows 79% caucasian but I know it’s got a diverse religious and LGBTQ population - not that it’s what you seek - but to show it’s not completely devoid of diversity - and a large out of state population.

U of SC - staying in state with Charleston…not for you… - also urban - but a more traditional campus - with arguably the top Honors College - would be affordable if he gets in - with Honors shrinking the school size. About 3/4 caucasian.

UVA is beautiful…as you said not urban. VCU is urban. VCU is in a great city and 36% white and is not $80K like UVA - $54K before aid. Yes it’s big but try Honors.

US News describest Christopher Newport as urban. It’s in Newport News - so it’s in the Newport News/Hampton/Norfolk area. It has top rated dorms and campus - which looks gorgeous. It’s over 4K kids. It will have small classes - it’s like a public liberal arts college. It’s very local - but you are close - like a mini W&M - mid 40s direct cost b4 aid. 71% white.

Two in PA might hit - not uber urban but urban. West Chester (outside Philly) and Millersville (outside Lancaster). They hit budget…Millersville is a nice size (with a strong atmospheric sciences program - in case your kid switches again :slight_smile: - WC is 75% caucasian. Millersville is 73% caucasian.

UT Chattanooga - nice school, nice size right across from downtown - gets lots of great feedback here in TN - 62% caucasian.

Will come back with more later…but many were already named!!

Hope this helps some - but all these (sans Pitt) should hit budget…some too big but worth an Honors look.

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Of the schools I mentioned upthread, I’d have him take a real good luck at Seton Hall and its School of Diplomacy and International Relations.

Loyola Maryland is part of the Baltimore Collegetown consortium that allows students to take classes at other Baltimore-area colleges…including Johns Hopkins and its international relations program.

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You don’t even need an extra spot, because you can use Pitt’s own app instead of the common app. The SUNY system has its own app too.

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And a free week to apply at SUNY - or is that just in state?

I know with Pitt - we did an info session and got an app waiver. Was Hail2Pitt - not sure if that still works!! Pitt is unlikely $$ wise - but a great school - similar in size to UVA and true urban :slight_smile:

In - state - UMBC - is diverse.

UAH hits budget - science leaning but has all the majors. Huntsville is large - but it feels suburban - it crushes the budget. Not saying it’s right - a few hours further drive than Chattanooga - but up and coming (sciences wise anyway) - 70% caucasian.

Mercer in Macon GA - it’s a small city. I know someone from Charlotte who went - for I want to say $45K. It’s religious I believe - they aren’t. Can’t find a CDS but third party shows 52% minority.

Trying to stay in the East Coast for you - Marshall is WV’s 2nd campus in a small city - but it’s a smaller school. Again, more locals but because you soar above, you go for cheap. It’s nice sized - and I’ve been (it’s where you turn North to go to more rural Ohio U) - there’s a sizable town / city there. 76% white - you’ll beat budget.

Like U of SC - UK is urban is UT Knoxville. These are all driveable from the DC area - but all likely too big but all with honors. UTK is near 80% caucasian. U Kentucky is 77%.

I think someone mentioned Loyola Maryland…but if not, there’s also Loyola New Orleans - and you can cross register at Tulane…that’s your Catholic or Jesuit angle to hopefully be in budget.

Two lasts - U of Tampa - I see too many adjuncts and majors for so few kids but it’s a hot school now. It’s nice sized. Tuition is cheap and they have merit - right outside downtown.

And not far from you - another public with mostly or only (that I can remember) great reviews on the CC - and it’s close to home and Richmond and DC - U of Mary Washington…even full pay it hits budget and you’ll get $$. And like CNU it’s a nice size. A tad over 3k. 59% caucasian.

OK - I hope some of my names or the names everyone else sent you - work for you or are at least worth researching further…

I tried to stay East Coast for you.

Best of luck on this journey.

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25

What about University of Dayton? I second Loyola Maryland. What about Catholic University of America (I know close to home but location would be good for his interests). Providence College. University of Delaware.

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Just something to think about from the first post - is there a chance he pivots back to IT or engineering. Many of the schools listed have business so MIS likely. But not engineering. All can get you there on a 3/2 but it’s an extra year.

Many but not all schools above do offer engineering or ABET accredited engineering physics. Engineering is a major, I think, where you just know. So perhaps it’s unlikely.

And it’s often hard to transfer in but not hard to transfer out.

If it’s a strong possibility, you might want to focus on schools that have Engineering or Engineering Physics majors - as a just in case. Not all above do but plenty do.

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Thank you again for your thoughts. I’ve had the same thoughts about engineering, but math has proven not to be is strong suit.

And how is it possible that Pitt is now so expensive? It seems like just yesterday (2019?) that Pitt barely cracked $40k, with regular large merit awards.

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Thank you. I think Ohio and U Dayton in particular would be too conservative and Catholic for him.

Will encourage him to look at Providence, hoping to get a trip together this summer.

He’s nixed anything in Maryland or DC as being too close to home, though I think GW would be a great fit for him, and I told him he has to apply to one state school.

He normally tests extremely well but he was so focused on final exams that he did not really study for the SAT. I will be shocked if he can’t get his SAT score way up.

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Ok. So engineering likely out. If you say GW is a good fit and he likes UVA, it sounds like maybe 10k and up are better than 3k and up.

I don’t think GW gets to budget. Others can or will listed above. But they’ll have campuses whereas GW doesn’t (well not a traditional). Of course he liked UVA and it does.

It’s important to have a few schools that will 100% admit him and will hit budget. GW is fine for an extra but not the hat I just said. They are up in the various threads people wrote. Some definitely get there. Some maybe get there. Hopefully you research some and come back maybe focusing on some of the larger. Given where you live you might even take a Sat / Sun trip and hit 3 or 4, just walk around, that are within a few hours North or South of home. Nothing formal. Just walking the campus, area around - even if too close to really narrow in on a campus type and environment.

Is a Mary Washington or CNU too small even though they are more than 3k. Does VCUhave the urbanness and feel desired ? Or a similar trip with schools north - Millersville, Drexel was on your list, West Chester, St Joes, I saw Delaware mentioned etc.

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Yes, good ideas, thank you. The challenge is scheduling things with his summer job but we will try to at least visit the ones that weigh demonstrated interest.

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Thank you, yes I have heard good things about UD - I have a friend with a kid there.

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Be aware that if engineering majors are possible majors of interest, the student needs to follow the initial math and science sequence in the first few semesters of college to ensure timely graduation if an engineering major becomes the choice, even if there are no capacity limits to change into the major.

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I’m saying - if you can get a day or two off - don’t do a formal visit. Literally get in the car - drive to Mary Washington 90 minutes away. Walk around. Have lunch. Is it too small? OK - go home. Next off day - drive to James Madison (not urban but has a town) - is that ok? or to Millersville - or if you can do two in a day - West Chester and Drexel, etc.

Nothing formal…a few hours…then next one…because you said 3K+ but mentioned much bigger schools. If you go to Mary Washington and he likes it - then you can check out Christopher Newport, Millersville, Charleston.

if they’re too small- then it’s Delaware as some recommended, Drexel, maybe since he liked Charlottesville, much cheaper James Madison in Harrisonburg is rural enough, etc.

You just need some comparators - no formal visits needed - as these are publics, DI won’t matter - and these are affordable safeties - which GWU and UVA aren’t…so they’re nice schools…but not truly the basis of what you’re looking for - so your mindset in that sense has to change…

So I’m just trying to narrow in on is 3-5K ok or 5-10K ok - or they are all too small - and let’s focus on 10K plus…so you can build the appropriate list of schools that will work for him…for example, if he does like bigger, maybe a SUNY B or SUNY Albany comes into play (or both) - one would be a target and one a safety - both affordable, etc. Or a JMU 0r UNCW - these are bigger schools and if that’s what he ends up liking, then you can avoid the 5k kid schools.

Demonstrated Interest at the schools that will meet your admission and budget needs won’t matter - is what I’m getting at - so I’m suggesting a very fast run through - whether you get 4 hours to run somewhere or can do an overnight and hit 4 or 5 schools, etc.

Hope that makes sense.

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It does make sense, thank you for further explaining.

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Not to belabor - but to put another way

You can’t put a headline - less than $50K, we’re full pay and then list schools like UVA, GW, Wake Forest, Emory, U Michigan, U Berkeley, U Richmond, Northwestern and Duke.

You could get into all of these - and guess what - you’re either not going or you’re breaking the bank. Yes, a few are possible with merit - but highly unlikely.

This is why I suggested what I did above - because the way to hit a price point is to:

  1. Apply to schools that meet your cost up front

  2. Applying to schools that offer merit - and where you’re likely to get it - meaning you’re statistically superior

So you’ve seen a lot of names from folks above- and yes they don’t have the cachet you mentioned - but he’s not going to be able to attend any schools that you listed - so set his expectations now.

But guess what - kids choose JMU over UVA and it’s much cheaper. There was a poster the other day that chose JMU over UVA and I think Va Tech and W&M.

Every flagship has brilliant kids - it’s why an Alabama (not for you) but has or had the most National Merit in the country - they get bought it.

So UVA doesn’t work - but JMU, U Del, FSU, U of SC, etc - these are the substitutes.

Michigan and UC Berkeley $80Kish - but Ohio State with merit, Purdue full price, U of Kansas, etc. Kentucky with merit, UTK with merit, Alabama with merit - etc - they are substitutes, etc.

Same with the other schools - you have to find subs that are realistic

Hopefully you get that now - but in case not - that’s why I’m saying - let’s figure out what he really likes (if he’s visited, he knows) - and then find the appropriate subs.

But you have to get those names out of his mind - or at least for Wake, Richmond and Duke - let him know - there’s the slimmest of chances merit comes in - so apply but assume you’re not going. They’re the least important schools on his list because it’s highly unlikely he attends.

And then only visit schools that are realistic from a budget POV where yes, he’ll be an above average student!!

Thanks

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Similar opinion here to many above. Talk cost first. We are full pay also and have looked at many of the same schools.

Some more thoughts about merit from this years cycle. A lot of desireable schools were $55-60k even after going back to the well for more merit (successfully everywhere btw).

Both my S18 and S24 got $30k Merit from Fordham (non NMSF) - so they do still give merit - but the cost increased so much in six years to $89k this year that’s it’s no longer even an option for us even with that much merit. Going abroad can save you $10k in loans because it’s so much cheaper so maybe $55k on average for 4 years is the best we could have done. And that was before accounting for substantial annual cost increases which can’t be ignored.

American was the same - though I know you ruled out DC - with lower cost but also lower merit ($17k) coming out to the same exact $60k as Fordham after merit. In both Fordham and Americans case we had to think about shaving off a semester to make it possible and that is maybe doable at American but unlikely at Fordham with the core and dual major. The plus though for both was the real ability to get a paid internship in DC/NY during the school year while taking classes almost like co-op.

Pitt and UMd are about $55k full board (non engineering, though I think business is also more). You can’t count on merit at these schools unless you have top stats (though we got a little from his college at UMD :slight_smile: so do apply for scholarships within the college once accepted). With both of these schools we can see a route to cut costs senior year going part time through AP/CLEP/CC xfer credits which we did successfully with S18 at Pitt. It’s also possible to get some merit at Pitt OOS to get to $50k but the scores and grades need to be up there so if that is your kid, think about it. The $15k merit my S18 Pitt grad (H2P!) got six years ago is far less likely now but $5-10k might happen again with greats stats.

UDel is more affordable. More like Pitt a few years back since you can still get substantial merit. S24 got $12k this year with good stats and others with top stats got more so it was down to UMd for more or UDel for less (=> UMd, Go Terps!) Just far enough away from DC and NY to attract both crowds.

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My dd21 got $3000 a year from UMD, $8000 from Pitt, $15,000 from UDel, 3.95 gpa, 33 act (sister with 34 act got $17,000).

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Good luck with your search for a unicorn.
Will be difficult to beat opportunities at UMD. UMD pretty much checks off all your requests.

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As another datapoint in support of UMD, I’ve been gathering CDS data for most of the top schools and — although I haven’t done an exhaustive search — UMD has the highest % of Black students in the freshman class of any non-HBCU in my dataset (11.8%). Obviously, there are more facets that contribute to diversity than that one number, but I think it’s a good one to know about, considering it’s such a great in-state option. If he won’t consider Maryland schools, maybe it’s moot. But sometimes data can help create a more complete picture. Maybe something to keep in your back pocket as he keeps looking.

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I understand. To clarify, those reaches are on HIS list, which he just put together this week.

I was hoping to find other urban schools that grant merit.

The schools I’ve asked him to check out are not reaches and do grant merit. They all show a sea of green on his Scoir. Just wondering if I am missing any hidden gems.