<p>^ vorssron, Israel has on multiple occasions. If you listen to ANY of the terrorist leaders, Hamas, etc they preach the destruction of Israel not a peaceful coexistence.</p>
<p>ozym, that touches on my point, that leaders tend to be more to the sides than the majority of moderate citizens of any country. Moderate Palestinians would be more able to find peace with moderate Israelis, but moderates have no voice.</p>
<p>you know, Israel just gave the Gaza Stip away, litterally dragging its own citizens away for the palistinian people.</p>
<p>Still, why can’t palistinians live in israel? Those that do thrive. Islam is not illegal there after all. Sure the star of david is on the flag, but Islam originated out of judeism. Christianity originated out of judeism, and I have no problem with the star of david. In fact, I could celebrate Yom Kippur, Haunikka, and all the jewish holidays if i wanted. Maybe i should, it can’t hurt.</p>
<p>“Israel just gave the Gaza Stip away, litterally dragging its own citizens away for the palistinian people.”</p>
<p>Alternate wording: “Israel just returned the Gaza Strip to its rightful owners, literally dragging its own occupying citizens away.”</p>
<p>“Still, why can’t palistinians live in israel? Those that do thrive.”</p>
<p>That’s exactly what some Palestinians want, to be able to return to the lands they own which are now inside Israel. Perhaps Israel will consider allowing this, perhaps not.</p>
<p>"“Israel will withdraw to the internationally recognized 1967 borders if the following conditions are met:”</p>
<p>and then list however many conditions are necessary? I know this is a “What if…” question, but wouldn’t such an announcement make Olmert an instant hero in the world? Wouldn’t suffering begin to end for everyone, including Israelis?"</p>
<p>Isn’t that exactly what was said about withdrawing from Gaza and from Lebanon? But look how that worked out. The bottom line is that Israel faces an existential threat, not one based upon its actions. When the goal is the removal of the state of Israel, which it is, then there are no acceptable borders.</p>
<p>Allmusic posted: “The truth is, I think most Palestinians would like to live in their own state, in peace and security. It’s their leadership and militant groups that are the problem.”</p>
<p>Do you think that’s really true? I mean completely true, I’m not questioning your honesty in any way. The Palestinian people did vote for Hamas, they do have a pretty violent culture, and the terror groups are populated by Palestinians. I think there are some, perhaps many, Palestinians who want good and peaceful lives, but I do think there are also many who don’t.</p>
<p>Vossron posted: “ozym, that touches on my point, that leaders tend to be more to the sides than the majority of moderate citizens of any country. Moderate Palestinians would be more able to find peace with moderate Israelis, but moderates have no voice.”</p>
<p>I’m not completely convinced that there is a significant number of moderate Palestinians.</p>
<p>Vossron posted: “That’s exactly what some Palestinians want, to be able to return to the lands they own which are now inside Israel. Perhaps Israel will consider allowing this, perhaps not”</p>
<p>Are you suggesting the right of return as a serious possibility? You really do support the end of the Jewish state, don’t you? </p>
<p>The alternate question is why the “Palestinians” don’t live in Jordan. Also, Jordan is an artificially-created state of the 20th century populated by (wait for it!) Palestinians. Jordan IS the Palestinian state. That’s where the “Palestinians” should live. It’s ridiculous to call Israel a landgrab and not make note of all the other artificial states in the middle-East created by the British after WWI.</p>
<p>US Ambassador John Bolton said there was no moral equivalence between the civilian casualties from the Israeli raids in Lebanon and those killed in Israel from “malicious terrorist acts”.</p>
<p>Good thing zoosermom can read Palestinans minds like that…that is the mentallity of arrogance she denies she has</p>
<p>My H is Irish, he was in Ireland during the troubles, good thing not all irish were judged by the actions of some on both sides of the conflict</p>
<p>But guess most Palestinians are terrorists, well, according to zoosermom</p>
<p>
What I have been saying for a long long time.</p>
<p>
Absolutely correct. Israel is moral, Palestine is not.</p>
<p>Zoosermom seems to be more level headed and respectful than you are.</p>
<p>No what he said was and read it carefully, that civilian deaths of Palestinians was not morally equivilent to the deaths of israels.</p>
<p>So if your baby was in Palestine, well, it deserved to die. So innocent people have different value…that is disgusting</p>
<p>As for respect, please. I respect the lives of all innocent people, who have no control what their neighbors or leaders do, unlike some who seem to blame little kids, cause if there are few Palestinan moderates, that means grandpas and 5 year olds deserve to perish</p>
<p>Nice thoughts</p>
<p>I do not agree with the attacks from either side, but to say that one side is more correct than the either when killing innocent people, what can i say to that?</p>
<p>During the Irish conflicts, it was really ugly, but England and Irish governments did have restraint enough to not go bombing London or Dublim with airstrikes from the military. The horrid bombings, and the rest were not supported by either side, even though the political divisions were clear</p>
<p>Sure there were all knds of other issues- jails, kneecapping, etc., but when the IRA did something, or the Provos did, restraint was used to a degree from both governments</p>
<p>Sure not the same issues, but it can show what governments can do on both sides if the really want to</p>
<p>Our government has no real burning desire to stop this thing</p>
<p>Citygirlsmom posted: “Good thing zoosermom can read Palestinans minds like that…that is the mentallity of arrogance she denies she has”</p>
<p>It might be arrogant if I had posted any such thing, but since I didn’t. Now attributing words to someone who didn’t post them is the epitome of arrogance.</p>
<p>Citygirlsmom lies: “But guess most Palestinians are terrorists, well, according to zoosermom”</p>
<p>What’s up with you today? Can’t respond to my posts on their own words that you have to make up things that I didn’t say? Disgraceful.</p>
<p>zoosermom</p>
<p>"I’m not completely convinced that there is a significant number of moderate Palestinians’</p>
<p>so what does that mean then…gosh</p>
<p>In a war, there are no innocents. If you start discriminating like that, you are not going to win wars… and you are going to get your own side killed. The atomic bomb for example. If killed, what? 150 thousand innocent Japanese perhaps? But what it saved was probably 50 thousand America lives and maybe two or three times the number of Japanese soldiers. </p>
<p>Your post is ridiculous. When we fight a war, the main objective is to destroy the enemy, not your own people. What about the people who died in the London bombings? Did we not mourn for them? Did we at the same time mourn for the thousands who were killed in the Dresden fire bombings? </p>
<p>There is no moral equivalency between Israel and Palestine. Yes, its sad if children die. But the terrorists bear the guilt for every innocent Palestinian life lost.</p>
<p>A bit off topic: What I find ironic is this: you weep if ten terrorists are dead. You don’t even think about the tens of millions who died (actually, were murdered) by liberal anti science hysteria. Malaria has claimed more actually lives than all ‘innocent’ Arab lives that have been taken. Noone but the hippie moonbats are to blame for that.</p>
<p>I honestly don’t know what to say any more. While people like mini who do not share the same beliefs as me show intelligence through mature posts, citygirlsmom’s posts are of a lower quality than a high schooler’s.</p>
<p>Brew posts: “Zoosermom seems to be more level headed and respectful than you are.”</p>
<p>Thank you Brew. I never said, implied, or even thought that most Palestinians are terrorists. What I DO think, however, is that the culture has become poisoned and many of the citizens have become radicalized. Not the same thing as calling someone a terrorist. Heck, I think there are radicals in the US, too, that I don’t think that they are terrorists, but I do think there is a mindset that makes compromise and understanding difficult. Citygirls’ posts notwithstanding.</p>
<p>if they are not moderate, what are they then</p>
<p>I am just saddened by this whole mess, and people are dying, innocent peole,but according to Bolten, those lives have different values, showing to the world, we value lives accordng to what side of a line in the sand they are that was drawn by people that don’t have control over</p>
<p>As Americans, we are judged by what our leaders do, we were attacked on 9-11 by Bin Laden because of what our government does and what we as Americans ARE, and we have every right to be angry, and saddened and disgusted, are the lives of innocent Israels and Palestinians any less then those killed in our towers
i say no, but seem the UN ambassodor disagrees</p>
<p>Innocent palesitian lives, well to him there are no innocents on that side of the sand…no matter how old, young, or if they don’t like what is happening either</p>
<p>His statementm which was supported here, was digusting</p>
<p>
As if my last point needed any more evidence.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1889439150/103-0306771-3386211?v=glance&n=283155[/url]”>http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1889439150/103-0306771-3386211?v=glance&n=283155</a> </p>
<p>Very highly recommended if you want to write coherent sentences.</p>
<p>And passion and anger is not at the level of a HSers post, sorry if my anger displeases you level headed moderates who see just one side</p>
<p>Go enjoy your day knowing that people like Bolten are tellng the wolrd how much we value human life, so long as those innocent people are not palestinian</p>
<p>With that kind of language, it us understandable why we have such little respect in the world and why we are not trusted as a nation</p>
<p>but hey, whatever, make a statement then run from it, if that is what youneed to do</p>