<p>I fully believe that choice 4 it is, but I think Israel will take the heat of doing the US dirty work by proxy. The US actually gets what it wants, which is continued war in the ME, with all the Halliburton rebuilding contracts, oil barron revenues, etc.</p>
<p>Although civillians are not the “primary” targets, they will be affect one way or another. This cant be avoided. It matter of more or less. I heard many people say this is the start of WW3 and will lead to the end of the world. lol. Anyone with any opinions on this?</p>
<p>I know the rapturists are beside themselves. The news of hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes and global warming has had them rubbing their hands in glee, but this potential world war has them positively giddy.</p>
<p>Global warming!</p>
<p>I know, I know Brew. You think that global warming is all a figment of some very overactive Goretype folks’ imagination.</p>
<p>But the rapturists are ecstatic, and they hate Gore too!</p>
<p>Why hate Al Gore? He saved us from Manbearpig!!</p>
<p>Let’s see…what would you do if you wanted to end up with a DMZ at least 20 kilometers deep? Why, you’d initially push for a DMZ that was 100 kilometers deep–and let yourself get talked backwards.</p>
<p>The US is getting Israel to do a bit of it’s dirty work–part of which may provide a breather for the military objectives in Iraq-- but the Israelis will be paid handsomely, methinks.</p>
<p>Interesting the Israelis, with US blessings, are building massive medieval symbols of their strength. The Wall, the Dry Moat (DMZ). I have wondered if the wall was an effective military deterrent–but perhaps it’s cultural potential is what counts. </p>
<p>Are these medieval visuals meant to encourage the Iranians and Arabs into developing western style government?</p>
<p>From where I live, walls have made good er…tolerable neighbors. Neither trusts the other, nor should they. With our wall, we haven’t had major shooting and slaughtering of people since 1974. It is a dmz for sure with UN troops and miles of unused land. I often think of Robert Frost as a wander near the wall in the late afternoon as the sun sets and I listen to church bells and the call to prayer almost simultaneously. Lots of resentment but folks are beginning to cross back and forth. It may just work, putting up a wall…in fifty years or so.</p>
<p>Allmusic, yep…scary isn’t it? I have checked out some websites- and yeah…you are right…</p>
<p>Everytime the Israelis bomb a school, airport, road, apartment complex etc, I thank God for exacting revenge on the terrorists because I know that when we bomb a site like that terrorists always die. Those muslim-terrorist-scum hide amongst the general populus hoping and waiting for their own people to die. Those muslims do not care about their own dead, they care about the negative public image that the dead carry on Israel. Any sane person would blame. I am absolutely disgusted by the idea that my government, the government of the Jewish people would “hang their soldiers out like bait”. Every Israeli and Jew knows they would never do that. The Jewish religion values life much more than that, much more than the Muslims and even Chrisitians. These soldiers, basically kids, were doing their duty on the border. They were protecting Jews, Arabs, Druze, Beduin, and Christians in Israel from the terrorism up north, they were not being dangled. I also find it interesting that Hizbullah has admited its true motives and how they miscalculated Israel’s response. This proves that Hizbullah feed off of successes in terror. If they kidnapp a Jew and in return for his DEAD body they recieve a few hundred prisoners with blood on their hands, they will do it again. But we have a saying that arose from the holocaust"NEVER AGAIN" NEVER AGAIN WILL WE LET OUR PEOPLE BE MURDERED. NEVER AGAIN WILL WE WALK TO OUR DEATHS. WE WILL FIGHT BACK AND KILL EVERY ****ING TERRORIST. No one can logically blame Israel for the death of civillians in Lebanon. The blame lays squarely on the shoulders of their Muslim brothers, Hizbullah</p>
<p>Thats about right ^</p>
<p>Well, the US government posts American troops and the British government posts British troops on the front line of the Korean DMZ. Those troops are sometimes called ‘trigger’ troops because their deaths would instigate an immediate US/UK response should the North Koreans decide to cross the border to re-start the long dormant but unresolved civil war. </p>
<p>It is a standard and viable military tactic. I’m not sure the Israelis did use trigger troops, but the escalation was so massive, so swift and so well organized, it does seem that the israelis were waiting for a trigger to initiate the invasion, the kidnapped troops do appear to be ‘well-selected’ in terms of age, experience, risk value. I could be wrong.</p>
<p>Here’s a great description of the Korean DMZ. One of my best friends lived near the border with her father when she was a girl and he was in the army. She describes the starkness in a similar way.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,203619,00.html[/url]”>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,203619,00.html</a>
</p>
<p>Well, you know I always think that instead of listening to the mouthings of politicians, you should look at the result, and then backwards toward motive. If you did that, you’d likely come to the conclusion that the target is Lebanon, not Hezbollah. Targeting airports, banking centers, bridges and harbors in the north, civilian centers in Christian areas, creating 800,000 refugees, more than half of them like not Shiites, hardly seems like an attack on Hezbollah (which came after the fact.) </p>
<p>So why target Lebanon? Because it is a threat. A multi-party (though clearly fragile) democracy of Arabs of all stripes (Sunni, Shia, Christian, and Druze) building a nation-state could be a model for a united Palestine, something that perhaps gives them more than a little trouble? Whatever their intention, now they basically have to do even more damage - no Lebanese government is going to repudiate Hezbollah at this point, not with 800,000 refugees.</p>
<p>As for the United Nations folks, well, they got what they deserved. I’m sure John Bolton was pleased.</p>
<p>I would love to answer both of ur questions. First off, every country Israel, US, France, Canada etc has contingency plans. Israeli has one against all of its neighbors most likely, and its necessary bc when an emergency happens u have to be ready. Second, the Israeli gov’t has amazing intelligence and it knows where things are and its swift response is only a part of the contigency plan.<br>
Mimi, to understand why Israel bombed such sites you simply have to open your eyes to reality. First off the airport was bombed because Hizbullah was planning on shipping the kidnapped soldiers (who are now most likely dead) to Iran. In addition, the airport will close shipping from Syria and Iran, its a strategic move. Just look at all the supplies and rockets that Iran has sent to Hizbullah. The raods were bombed for similar reasons, purely strategic. To win a war the transportation must be cut off and the Israelis did so. They understand that civillians will be affected but in times of war that stuff happens. What about all of the Israeli civillians called up to reserve duty. I feel for them, I feel for the lebanese,. but unfortunately war is war. 3rd population centers were bombed because thats where the terrorists hide. Unfortunately, they use the deaths of arabs to their advantage, but Israel must go after its enemies. It pains me when civillians die, but an equivillancy cannot be drawn between Israel and terrorists. Israel does what i can to spare civillian lives.</p>
<p>I don’t think Lebanon was the threat. I think Syria and Iran were, and ARE the threats, but the way Israel has bombed the hell out of Lebanon is disgraceful, and I can say that as a true Zionist. I am deeply saddened by Israel’s actions, and I also think they do not make Israel (or any of us) safer.</p>
<p>Hizbollah, Hamas, Iran, Syria have plenty of jihadist hate filled madmen. But bombing a country’s infrastructure and creating a nation of refugees isn’t the way to get to the root of the problem.</p>
<p>Lebanon is a threat to Israel. It is a threat to Israel because from inside Lebanon Hizbullah has the green light to attack Israel. It may not be fully Lebanon’s fault, but still Hizbullah is operating from Lebanon. Israel’s operation will make the country safer. That is a fact. Just look at Hizbullahs statement that they did not expect such resistance. They expected a little attack here or there and then a lopsided prisoner change. It is becuase of that, that Hizbullah chose to kidnapp soldiers. Now that it miscalculated the response, it regrets it and most likely will be more cautious next time. Everytime Israel goes to war with one of its neighbors it buys itself some peace.</p>
<p>Mimi, to understand why Israel bombed such sites you simply have to open your eyes to reality. First off the airport was bombed because Hizbullah was planning on shipping the kidnapped soldiers (who are now most likely dead) to Iran."</p>
<p>Well, since the U.S. gave aid to Lebanon to build the airport to be used by Hezbollah to ship the Israeli prisoners of war to Iran, why not bomb Detroit?</p>
<p>I think Israel’s strategy, if there is one, is relatively simple. If you terrorize a population hard enough and long enough, and imprison enough individuals in jail without trial, somehow folks you don’t like will roll over and play dead. Hasn’t worked in the past, and not likely to work in the future, but the failure of imagination (no less military strategy) is breathtaking.</p>
<p>“Israel’s operation will make the country safer. That is a fact.”</p>
<p>It’s a fact that Israel thinks it’s operation will make Israel safer. No one knows yet if it actually will.
Making a country “safer” is not a rationale for bombing innocent civilians and a country’s infastructure. The Bible says, and eye for an eye. This feels more like 10 eyes for an eye. But it’s ok, because Israel will be safer. They hope.
But what about the rest of the world. Does it make the rest of us safer?</p>
<p>y are u people so blind to the truth. This infastructure is being used by hizbullah for terror purposes. If hizbullah wasnt using the airport, if they werent using these roads ISrael would have no need to attack them. Israel isnt terrorizing the population. Israel isnt the one that is randomly and unprovked shooting rockets into civillian centers, israel isnt the one kidnapping soldiers, israel isnt the one kidnapping and murdering teenagers, israel isnt the one sending bombs into night clubs and restaurants. The reason so many civillians are dying is because the terrorists use them as human shields. Why cant one of u have the moral clarity to stand up and say that if the terrorist would stop fighting from amongst innnocent civillians the israelis would stop bombing there.<br>
I think this operation will make israel safer. If you just look at the history of the country, when it acts it is safe, and when it sits on its ass and listens to world opinion thats when jews die. Last summer Israel did just that it pulled out of gaza and gave the arabs what they wanted yet no peace? What was israel supposed to do now give a few thousand crimminals over for 2 most likey already dead soldiers?</p>
<p>From Juan Cole (<a href=“http://www.juancole.com%5B/url%5D”>www.juancole.com</a>)</p>
<p>The Israelis denied that they hit the base deliberately, but Kofi would know. Why do it? When you have in mind war crimes, it is better not to have neutral observers in the region.</p>
<p>Philip Gordon relays the thinking of the Israeli political and military elite behind its inhuman and massive bombing of all Lebanon: </p>
<p>’ According to retired Israeli army Col. Gal Luft, the goal of the campaign is to “create a rift between the Lebanese population and Hezbollah supporters.” The message to Lebanon’s elite, he said, is this: “If you want your air conditioning to work and if you want to be able to fly to Paris for shopping, you must pull your head out of the sand and take action toward shutting down Hezbollah-land.” ’ </p>
<p>In other words, Zbig was right that the Israelis have kidnapped the 3.8 million Lebanese and are holding them all for ranson, while breaking their legs from time to time to encourage prompt payment. The horrible thing is that the Lebanese could not do anything about Hizbullah if they wanted to. Their government is weak and divided (Hizbullah is in it, and the Bush administration and Ambassador Mark Feltman signed off on that!) Their new, green army only has 60,000 men, and a lot of them are Shiites who would not fight Hizbullah. Lebanon was a patient that needed to be nurtured carefully to health. Instead, it has been drafted and put into the middle of the worst fighting on the battlefield.</p>
<p>Then there is this: ’ Brigadier General Dan Halutz, the Israeli Chief of Staff, emphasised that the offensive . . . was open-ended. “Nothing is safe (in Lebanon), as simple as that,” he said. '</p>
<p>In other words, Halutz, who is also said to have threatened ten for one reprisals, is openly declaring that he will commit war crimes if he wants to. Nothing is safe? A Christian school in the northern village of Bsharri? A Druze old people’s home in the Shouf mountains? A Sunni family out for a stroll in the northern port of Tripoli? He can murder all of them at will, Halutz says. And Luft gives us the rationale. If these Lebanese civilians aren’t curbing Hizbullah for Israel, they just aren’t going to be enjoying their lives. They are a nation of hostages until such time as they have properly developed Stockholm syndrome and begin thanking the Israelis for their tender mercies.</p>
<p>I was in Beirut briefly in mid-June. I went downtown in the evening, where big LCD displays had been set up outside at the cafes, and thousands of people were enjoying the World Cup games. The young Lebanese, in jeans, were dancing to the new pop music of stars like Nancy Ajram and Amal Hijazi. Some had painted their faces with Brazilian flags. They were rooting for Brazil. The shops were full of fashionable clothing and jewelry, the restaurants tastefully decorated, the gourmet Lebanese food tantalizing. The bookstores were full of probing studies and intelligent commentary. The Syrians were gone and there was a lighthearted atmosphere. The snooty nightclubs at places like Monot street were choosy about who could get in.</p>
<p>I went to see publishers about my project, of publishing the works of great American thinkers in Arabic. Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Susan B. Anthony, Martin Luther King. They mentioned about how the US did not have a good reputation and maybe not many readers would be interested. I said, maybe that is changing. Washington supports the new government, after all. We are your well-wishers.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, while Nancy was singing and Brazil was scoring, Halutz and Olmert were putting the final touches on their long-planned bombing campaign. They would go up and hit Tripoli’s port, a Sunni area. They would hit the port at Jounieh, the trendy Christian city near Beirut. They would hit Beirut’s port and its new shiny airport. They would hit the milk factory, the telecom towers, the roads, the bridges, and some clinics and hospitals for good measure. They would hit the fuel depots. It would be a total war on the Lebanese civilian population, setting 800,000 out of 3.8 million out from their homes or the rubble of their former homes, forcing them to other cities as homeless refugees, or abroad to Syria or Cyprus. They would reduce al-Dahiyah al-Janubiyah, the teeming Shiite slum to the south, to rubble and stray bloody fingers, feet and noses. They would say that these were all military targets, but they lied. Hizbullah is a political party with 14 MPs in parliament. It has political party offices, soup kitchens, clinics, in those Shiite slums. A lot of times it seems to be these that the Israelis hit. They lied and said that missiles were launched from Beirut, when they never were.</p>
<p>Israel’s present policy toward Lebanon, of striking at so many civilian targets as to hold the entire civilian population hostage, is unspeakable.</p>
<p>I haven’t complained about the Israeli border war with Hizbullah. I’m not sure it is wise, and I don’t know how many Israelis Hizbullah even killed in, say, the year 2005. Is it really worth it? But I don’t deny that Hizbullah went too far when it shelled dozens of civilian towns and cities and killed over a dozen innocent civilians, even in reprisal for the Israeli bombing campaign. (You can’t target civilians. That is a prosecutable crime.) That is a clear casus belli, and I’d like to see Nasrallah tried at the Hague for all those civilian deaths he ordered. The fighting at Maroun al-Ra’s and Bint Jbeil was horrible on all sides, but it was understandable, even justifiable. The fighting itself isn’t going to lead anywwhere useful, though, and it is time for a ceasefire and political negotiations–the only way to actually settle such disputes.</p>
<p>What was done to Lebanon as a whole is among the most horrible war crimes of the young 21st century. And that it was done tells me that there is something sick in the heart of the Israeli military and political elite, a sickness of the soul that had better be faced and remedied before our entire world catches the contagion.</p>
<p>I mean, who talks like that? “if you want to be able to fly to Paris for shopping, you must pull your head out of the sand and take action toward shutting down Hezbollah-land.” . . . “Nothing is safe, as simple as that.” If they are the good guys, why do they talk like James Bond villains?</p>
<p>Yes, yes, Nasrallah and his shock troops are also evil. They are also sick in the soul. We have established that. Halutz can have the 5,000 fighters and the 12,000 rockets to do as he pleases to them. I have been to Haifa, too, and the city means a lot to me. I mind deeply when I hear that the mad bombers around Nasrallah have killed people there and done substantial damage. </p>
<p>But you will note that 800,000 Israelis are not homeless, that the ports are still operating, that Tel Aviv airport is open, that over 400 Israeli civilians aren’t dead in two weeks, that factories, roads, bridges, telecom towers are still there. In fact, you will note that no flotilla of international vessels had to come to evacuate tens of thousands of foreigners from Israel. It is suffering, and that is wrong. It is not suffering what Lebanon is.</p>