<p>The barely concealed glee with which Cole reports the 1:1 kill ratio shows where he stands. Glad Yale dropped his butt.</p>
<p>Mini, were you partying with the Black Panthers when that was the liberal chic thing to do?</p>
<p>these articles ur posting by anti-semites are useless. Mini y dont u tell me what u would do in this situation. And can u please explain why u feel that the way israel is conducting this war is wrong. Can you explain why is it wrong to attack civillian areas when there are terrorists there. Or maybe you feel that this is all a lie and that israeli pilots find where the most innocent people are and lob a 100 million dollar bomb while ignoring hizbullah terrorists firing off rockets or maybe u feel hizbullah isnt a threat at all?</p>
<p>I think that if Israel wanted to make war on Hezbollah, it should have done so. But I don’t believe that is their aim. </p>
<p>I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. The best thing that Israel could do for itself in the medium term is to ensure a prosperous, reasonably well satisfied, and employed Palestinian population, one which would be the envy of the rest of the Arab world. It would be much, much cheaper than what they have done over the past 25 years, and the Palestinians (like the majority of Lebanese) have much more in common with educated, cosmopolitan Israelis than they do with the rest of the Arab world. But having sent 600,000 Palestinian Christians into exile (most of them now living in Michigan), and a population turning to Hamas as the only group of folks in the neighborhood who can provide anything in the way of education and social services, much of that opportunity has been squandered by a series of Israeli politicians. </p>
<p>Israel’s real problem over the long term is neither Hezbollah nor the Palestinians, but the demographic reality regarding the Israeli Arabs. This is why, more than 50 years after statehood, Israel governs without a constitutiion or a bill of rights - a constitution would have to deal with what limits Jewish Israelis are prepared to place on the fundamental democratic rights of their Arab fellow citizens. </p>
<p>The best thing that could happen to Israel now (in the short-term) is the conflict to be fought to a standstill. They occupied southern Lebanon before, and with disastrous consequences. The catastrophic occupation of Iraq is in its endgame, and the U.S. has hardly done particularly well in “winning hearts and minds”. Over time, fewer and fewer U.S. politicians are going to want anything in the way of continuing entanglement. Even Bush and Rice have made it clear that the U.S. will not take a leading role in enforcing a ceasefire/peace deal. The days of Camp David are over, and Israel will find itself in increasing isolation, a growing Arab citizen minority in its midst, a more radicalized Palestinian population in the Bantustans, and the growth of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, a radicalizing Jordan, and a Lebanon that could once have been a friendly neighbor, if not an ally, bombed into oblivion.</p>
<p>i would like to see the explanation for the UN observing posts being bombed…it was cleary marked, both sides knew it was there, and yet…</p>
<p>I think it was all part of the general rain of terror directed at Lebanon (not Hezbollah), and a warning to Syria and/Iran and/or the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, should they take power that aiding the Palestinians will come at great cost to their civilian populations, and the United Nations will not be able to protect them. </p>
<p>It’s about as clear as it can by, “barring further investigation”, that they knew precisely what they were doing:</p>
<p><a href=“http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060726/wl_nm/mideast_un_dc_1;_ylt=Auv6sKC9lDXIhyf4Ahm_SpAUvioA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl[/url]”>http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060726/wl_nm/mideast_un_dc_1;_ylt=Auv6sKC9lDXIhyf4Ahm_SpAUvioA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl</a></p>
<p>idk mistakes happen. Pilots from the air arent perfect. Just like the rockets hizbullah aims at peoples homes sometimes miss and land in the sea, israeli rockets can miss or the pilot can miscalculate his bearings. When israel makes a mistake it take responsibility for it and invistigates into the matter. Im sure a month ago you were saying how could an Israeli shell hit a gaza beach and kill a family well in the end we found out it wasnt an israeli shell but an arab land/water mine. Also i offer u this to think about alot of times israel has uncovered alot of nasty things going on in UN bulidings/vehicles. They have found UN vehicles laden with explosives that were being smuggled into israel same thing with their ambulances. Also UN buildings have been used in the past for storing weapons and hiding terrorists and ****. Idk i wannt to see what the investigation report says</p>
<p>but see mini thats factually incorrect. Nothing was directed at lebanon, israel does not give a **** about that country. I dont see why u cant believe that Israel has a real enemy and its really fighting it. Ofcourse its also a good tool to scare the **** out of the contries and orgs u mentioned, but if israel wanted to it could bomb and annhilate all of those places.</p>
<p>mini ur explanation has alot of innacuracies in addition to just a lack of understanding of the people and region. This conflict isnt about land or a country its a about Arabs hating jews. Just look at the history…every time israel is prepared to give away land or actually gives away land the arabs respond with violence. Contrast the palestinians to israeli arabs. They are essentially the same people. They could be brother-brother but they live in different borders and live different lives. Drive up to the north of israel which is now being shelled daily and u will see the most gorgeous arab towns. They have villas and homes that are bigger than alot of jews. Arabs prosper under israeli rule but suffer under their own rule and blame it on jews</p>
<p>I’m always inclined to discount the opinions of those who cite the decent historian of 19th century middle east Juan Cole as an authority on the modern situation. He is the new Joseph Wilson, “sipping sweet tea” with students in Beirut as he opines on modern situations of which he has no knowledge. This guy has his number: <a href=“http://iraqpundit.blogspot.com/2005/09/cole-of-arabia.html[/url]”>http://iraqpundit.blogspot.com/2005/09/cole-of-arabia.html</a></p>
<p>I’d also add that there isn’t a more “reasonably well satisfied, and employed Palestinian population” in the entire region than those who live and prosper in Israel. Try finding their Jewish counterparts in Arab countries.</p>
<p>thank god someone has ther morality to defend israel on this board. You my man have some moral clarity you know tyhe difference between right and wrong</p>
<p>Quote: “The best thing that Israel could do for itself in the medium term is to ensure a prosperous, reasonably well satisfied, and employed Palestinian population, one which would be the envy of the rest of the Arab world. It would be much, much cheaper than what they have done over the past 25 years, and the Palestinians (like the majority of Lebanese) have much more in common with educated, cosmopolitan Israelis than they do with the rest of the Arab world. But having sent 600,000 Palestinian Christians into exile (most of them now living in Michigan), and a population turning to Hamas as the only group of folks in the neighborhood who can provide anything in the way of education and social services, much of that opportunity has been squandered by a series of Israeli politicians.”</p>
<p>A lot of money has been sent to the Palestinians, but the majority of it winds up in the pockets of corrupt politicians. When Yassir Afafat died his net worth was reported as $1 billion, he got that from taking monies sent to help “his people.” His estanged wife receives over a million dollars a month to care for “their” child. I have known people over the years who have worked in various official capacities which have tried desperately to funnel money and business to the Palestinean areas. The area is a cesspool of corruption, with little concern for the people by their leaders. This is not Israel’s fault, no matter how one poster on CC wants to believe that Israel should be destroyed to better the lives of the entire Arab world.</p>
<p>As to the figures about Arabs in Detroit, the total count is approximately 300,000, from many Middle Eastern countries, the vast majority being Muslim. The Iraqi Christians have a decent sized community there. But there are NOT 600,000 Palestinian Christians in Michigan. If you really believe there are, please show us the source of those figures. My figures are from the Wall Street Journal. </p>
<p>I do believe that there are posters that like to have one viewpoint that will try to annoy people or just keep a dialogue going, for personal reasons beyond the scope of the Internet. My suggestion is to ignore him/her, as I see that often the same person will go forum to forum with annoying posts to get a reaction, often spending an inordinate amount of time online. I think when something is factually incorrect, it is worth responding, otherwise, let him/her stew in his/her own juices. Just my humble opinion, why feed the frenzy?</p>
<p>“I’d also add that there isn’t a more “reasonably well satisfied, and employed Palestinian population” in the entire region than those who live and prosper in Israel. Try finding their Jewish counterparts in Arab countries.”</p>
<p>Well said, Driver.</p>
<p>Arab Israelis are citizens. Arab parties hold seats in Israel’s Parliament. While Arab Israelis’ standards of living are not as high as those of Jewish Israelis, they have higher levels of education and medical care, and better living standards than their counterparts in other parts of the Mideast. Jews, in stark contrast, no longer live in Arab lands, having been expelled or having fled because of persecution, their property institutionally confiscated.</p>
<p>absolutely. Employment and money isnt the issue for these people. The problem with reugees and palestinian arabs is that palestinians are a false people, so to speak, they are actually just arabs. In 1948 when Israel won its war of independance rought 650 or some thousand arabs left what became Israel. They generally left on their own accord or bc of the arab propoganda machine which told them that the jews were horrible animals who would slaughter and massacre them. As these arabs were packing out Jewish and Israeli leaders were begging them to stay and so forth but they left and it is those 650,000 that are referred to so often by a new ethnicity, palestinians. At the same time thousands of arabs decided to stay in israel, become citizens and gain the same rights that jews had. The arabs dont even have to serve in the army and they live a good life, they are employed, and so forth. Ofcourse they have their problems as any group of peopel does but arabs in israel are better off than arabs in arab countries. But i find it interesting that those arabs who left israel got a new ethnicity and became palestinians. Those who stayed are still arabs. The reality is that “palestinians” are generic sunni muslim arabs and christian arabs. Also the palestinians have a home country its called jordan where 2/3 of the country is by definition “palestinian”</p>
<p>THIS IS AN INTERESTING ARTICLE I FEEL</p>
<p>A very interesting article, written by a Japanese journalist, on the Palestinian people.
If you are so sure that “Palestine, the country, goes back through most of recorded history”, I expect you to be able to answer a few basic questions about that country of Palestine:
When was it founded and by whom?
What were its borders?
What was its capital?
What were its major cities?
What constituted the basis of its economy?
What was its form of government?
Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?
Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?
What was the language of the country of Palestine?
What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?
What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell
what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit
against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on
that date.
And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its
demise and when did it occur? You are lamenting the “low sinking” of “once
proud” nation. Please tell me, when exactly was that “nation” proud and what
was it so proud of?
And here is the least sarcastic question of all: If the people you mistakenly call “Palestinians” are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over – or thrown out of – the Arab world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat in the Six Day War?
I hope you avoid the temptation to trace the modern day “Palestinians” to the Biblical Philistines: substituting etymology for history won’t work here.
The truth should be obvious to everyone who wants to know it. Arab
countries have never abandoned the dream of destroying Israel; they still cherish
it today. Having time and again failed to achieve their evil goal with military means, they decided to fight Israel by proxy. For that purpose, they created a terrorist organization, cynically called it “the Palestinian people” and installed it in Gaza, Judea, and Samaria. How else can you explain the refusal by Jordan and Egypt to unconditionally accept back the “West Bank” and Gaza, respectively?
The fact is, Arabs populating Gaza, Judea, and Samaria have much less
claim to nationhood than that Indian tribe that successfully emerged in Connecticut with the purpose of starting a tax-exempt casino: at least that tribe had a constructive goal that motivated them. The so called “Palestinians” have only one motivation: the destruction of Israel, and in my book that is not sufficient to consider them a nation" – or anything else except what they really are: a terrorist organization that will one day be dismantled.
In fact, there is only one way to achieve peace in the Middle East. Arab countries must acknowledge and accept their defeat in their war against Israel and, as the losing side should, pay Israel reparations for the more than 50 years of devastation they have visited on it. The most appropriate form of such reparations would be the removal of their terrorist organization from the land of Israel and accepting Israel’s ancient sovereignty over Gaza, Judea, and Samaria.
That will mark the end of the Palestinian people. What are you saying again was its beginning?
You are absolutely correct in your understanding of the “Palestinians” murderous motives. I am afraid however that you, along with 99% of the population of this planet have missed the beginning of WWIII (the enemy call it Jihad) quite a few years ago. The siege of the US embassy in Tehran in 1979, an event to which the latest Nobel Peace Prize winner had so miserably failed to respond, can be very well used as the day WWIII stepped out of the pages of the Koran and into the current events.
I pray the United States and Israel lead the world to victory in this war. Come to think of it, there is no choice, be you a Christian, a Jew, or even, believe it or not, a Muslim.
This article was written by Yashiko Sagamori Nov 6, 2002.</p>
<p>And Americans wondered why the Arabs hate us ?!! The simple truth is that we support Israel no matter what. As someone born under colonial rule, I can say if Israel truly wants peace, you don’t go all out and destroy Lebanon. True peace can only be achieved by winning the enemies’ hearts.</p>
<p>What is israel supposed to do then. Israel pulled out of gaza last summer without any conditions it gave the arab what they wanted. It cant do more than that. But in response the arabs did not give peace they just used gaza to widen their terror base</p>
<p>That’s after Israel systemically destroyed Gaza. So you withdraw and give them back a bunch of rubbles. This is exactly what Israel is again doing to Lebanon. Even if it withdraws there can be no peace. I just see both sides will take revenge after revenge…I don’t see peace can be achieved in the Middle East…at least not in our lifetime.</p>
<p>“True peace can only be achieved by winning the enemies’ hearts.”</p>
<p>I don’t think that the Palestinians firing rockets from Gaza, or Hezbollah firing rockets into Israel, or their kidnapping Israeli soldiers “because we thought we would get a prisoner trade” is winning Israel’s heart. I actually don’t think that the Palestinians have won many hearts, as the rest of the Arab world doesn’t know what to do with them, have not welcomed them into their countries, and have done little to help them develop their economy because of great mistrust of them.</p>
<p>But perhaps Hezbollah and Hamas will start trying to make nice to the Israelis when they decide not to destroy the country, so your idea of these groups trying to win Israeli’s hearts is a good one, to achieve peace.</p>
<p>I think that the Palestinians could rebuild, but then Hamas would lose their justification for existence. </p>
<p>Japan rebuilt, Germany rebuilt, England rebuilt, as did much of the rest of Europe and Asia after WWII. If they would show the intent to do the positive rebuilding then the world would only be too happy to assist with aid and money. However, if the money and effort goes once again to the pockets of corrupt leaders and bombs, etc, then I don’t think much will happen. There is a lot of interest in building up that economy, but only when there is some assurance that it can happen.</p>
<p>collegialmom, peace can only be achievd unilaterally. Can I see you and all of you who are pro Israel telling the Israelis to win the Palestinians’ hearts ? If not, then it just confirms my prediction that peace cannot be achieved in the Middle East. And don’t say that Israel has already tried. Countries can seemingly be rebuilt…the infrastructure yes, but not the people’s minds and hearts.</p>
<p>To my knowledge, there is no animosity today between England and Germany, or USA and Japan, despite the fact that they waged some of the bloodiest battles in the history of mankind. USA and England did not win over the hearts of the enemies. They destroyed them. Peace cannot be acheived without a major war. *Qui desiderat pacem, preparet bellum.
- Words to live by.</p>